Bonsai Study Group Forum

General Category => Deciduous Bonsai Discussion => Topic started by: JRob on March 26, 2012, 08:12 PM

Title: Acer buergeranum leaf sizes
Post by: JRob on March 26, 2012, 08:12 PM
Good Evening All,

For those of you with more experience than I have, I've posted a picture of the leaves of 4 Acer buergeranum (Trident Maples) that I just picked off the four trees of this species that I own. The first is a new tree from Brussels that I just bought earlier this year before it leafed out. I was interest in the nebari so I had them due a dramatic trunk chop there before I brought it home because my intent was to make a shohin. I was stunned to see the leaf size when it sprouted last week compared to my other tridents, Will they reduce? I have never seen a trident with leaves this big.

Thanks,
JRob
Title: Re: Acer buergeranum leaf sizes
Post by: John Kirby on March 26, 2012, 08:25 PM
They can be reduced, right now after a sever cutback, you want big leaves- will help feed the roots and stimulate repair. Leaf size is a management issue later on. John
Title: Re: Acer buergeranum leaf sizes
Post by: biglou13 on March 26, 2012, 08:54 PM
i have 3- 4 inch leaves also on a trident, also. biggest ive ever seen on it.  i m chalking it up to a healthy fall/winter, storing up lots of energy, and cutting it back a little (took off some for hard wood cuttings). im not worried about it. tree is in fattening stage  not even close to thinking about leaf reduction, but pleasantly surprised to see how vigorous this springs growth is. i'll share image of my large leaves  tomorrow.
Title: Re: Acer buergeranum leaf sizes
Post by: donmaple on March 26, 2012, 10:21 PM
Leaf size for the most part is pure math. And I would be willing to bet y,all thought trees were stupid. Trees leaves are just the solar cells for making energy. A tree needs x amount of square inches (or centimeters for you youngsters) of leaf mass to produce enough energy to survive. The tree can do this with one leaf (a very large one) or a couple hundred little ones. Thats where ramification comes into play. The more leaves you can get into that area the smaller they need to be. But don't discount genetics, you can reduce the leaves on a magnolia but you may never get them down to 1 inch. JRob and biglou you will almost always see big leaves after a big chop especially if you remove all the smaller branches. Don't worry that's just your tree trying to stay healthy. Keep it growing and ramify. Good luck, Don.
Title: Re: Acer buergeranum leaf sizes
Post by: Chrisl on March 26, 2012, 11:39 PM
It got down to 37 here last night, and my in ground young Trident's leaves took a small hit.  Strangely, not all of them. 

Anyway, nice to learn about the relationship of leaf size's and trunk chops.  Have a pic JRob?
Title: Re: Acer buergeranum leaf sizes
Post by: biglou13 on March 27, 2012, 02:22 AM
i see pics in OP ....

I understand the "math"  but at what point in the equation does it switch from large leaves to back budding?  I have no doubt that at some greater degree in chopping, my Acer b. will bud back on old wood. vs GIANT leaves.

At the degree I cut back mine, I estimate i removed 60 percent of existing buds,  expected to see intense back budding especially on trunk in order to grow out some whips low on trunk,  unfortunately none. (at this time)

I cut back much less on 5-6 year old black pines, and got more back budding, than trident.  I realize now, contrary to popular belief that it isn't that hard to get black pines to bud back, on old wood. However that is comparing malus sargentii  to citrus mitis. (bonsai humor)
Title: Re: Acer buergeranum leaf sizes
Post by: John Kirby on March 27, 2012, 07:50 AM
How old s your black pine, 50+ years?
Title: Re: Acer buergeranum leaf sizes
Post by: biglou13 on March 28, 2012, 11:27 AM
John -
......5-6 year old black pines........
Title: Re: Acer buergeranum leaf sizes
Post by: John Kirby on March 28, 2012, 11:52 AM
They should back bud extremely well, the term old/older is a relative thing. John
Title: Re: Acer buergeranum leaf sizes
Post by: Chrisl on March 28, 2012, 11:58 AM
I've got 6 new buds on a PP collected in '09 that is about 150 yrs old.  Pretty amazing to see.
Title: Re: Acer buergeranum leaf sizes
Post by: John Kirby on March 28, 2012, 03:08 PM
Right, but it budded back on wood less than 10-15 years old, I'll bet.
Title: Re: Acer buergeranum leaf sizes
Post by: Chrisl on March 28, 2012, 05:48 PM
That's probably true John.