Bonsai Study Group Forum

General Category => Deciduous Bonsai Discussion => Topic started by: bwaynef on January 21, 2010, 10:53 AM

Title: A maple project
Post by: bwaynef on January 21, 2010, 10:53 AM
Through a little horse trading I came across a flat or 2 of (trident and Jmaple) maple seedlings.  I don't have room to plant ~100 seedlings in the ground, so I'm working on developing interesting stock, in pots, that could in the future go into the ground if/when I get access to a larger patch of ground.

One of my more recent experiments involves up-potting the seedlings from their 36-cell/tray homes into a 4" pot.  I prune the roots, but only as much as is needed to accommodate the other part of the experiment.  After the seedlings are root-pruned/teased I put them into the 4" pot and spread the remaining roots out.  Then slip a 5/16x1 1/2" washer over the seedling (taking care not to destroy (m)any buds) and situate it firmly around the lower trunk ABOVE any roots.  I prefer to pot the washer deeply enough that any roots forming above the washer aren't in danger of drying out.

The idea being the roots that are there now (which were pruned/teased) will sustain the seedling and cause it to grow as would be expected.  At some point the seedling's growth will swell over the washer and ideally cause roots to form.  Those roots are then guided laterally from the washer in place.

Title: Re: A maple project
Post by: bwaynef on January 21, 2010, 10:54 AM
I think I have 24 Tridents and 7 Japanese maples
Title: Re: A maple project
Post by: Hotaction on January 21, 2010, 02:43 PM
Nice project, I think you'll see some nice results in the near future. 

Dave
Title: Re: A maple project
Post by: Jay Wilson on January 22, 2010, 08:21 AM
Interesting idea. Good luck with it and give us an update when you can.
Title: Re: A maple project
Post by: John Kirby on February 17, 2010, 04:25 PM
It works, variation on the original- done with cuttings through drilled tiles. I think Matt O does it this way as well, I have done a bunch, they always sell faster than I do them.....

John
Title: Re: A maple project
Post by: LordEOfBeckley on November 30, 2011, 09:55 AM
Hi, I'm interested in your experiment... how's it coming along? I started a similar experiment earlier this spring. 1 directly through a tile (actually a 1/4" square of plexi, much easier to drill than tile), 5 through the tile w/ holes drilled in a dice type pattern, and 1 planted normally. The 1 planted normally has doubled in size compared to the ones grown through the tiles, don't know if that is a coincidence or not?
Thanks, Mike
Title: Re: A maple project
Post by: bwaynef on January 09, 2012, 10:12 AM
I lost most of these in my first battle with squirrels.  After moving to a new home with lots of Oak trees in the yard, I was woefully unprepared for dealing with squirrels and underestimated them.  They decimated most of these small trees as they were the first to begin leafing out.

I'll be doing this again.  Live and learn.
Title: Re: A maple project
Post by: Don Blackmond on January 09, 2012, 05:33 PM
may I suggest .22 cb short...
 ;D
Title: Re: A maple project
Post by: bwaynef on March 01, 2012, 08:32 AM
Round two started yesterday.  I'll try to get some pictures of the newer, more interesting takes on what to do when you have too many jmaple seedlings.
Title: Re: A maple project
Post by: Chrisl on March 01, 2012, 09:42 AM
I've heard of this Wayne but have never seen it done, or how effective that is.  I have a bunch of seedlings that I do have room for in ground development.  Would you suggest I do this washer procedure, or plant over a tile?  Or does it not matter?

Too bad those damn squirrels ate you plants up.  I have a serious gardner friend of mine in Houston who keeps a pellet gun by his back door to kill any and every squirrel that he sees.  Seems rather harsh, but if he doesn't do it, his entire/huge garden would be wasted.  Anyway, good luck this time around! :)
Title: Re: A maple project
Post by: bwaynef on March 01, 2012, 10:39 AM
Would you suggest I do this washer procedure, or plant over a tile?  Or does it not matter?

I'm certainly no expert, and obviously not as much of an expert as I was hoping I'd be by now, but when I removed the first batch of (dead) trees, the washer did seem to be having its desired effect.
Title: Re: A maple project
Post by: Chrisl on March 01, 2012, 10:58 AM
Good Wayne, Thanks!  Using a washer is a lot easier than trying to get the fine roots of a seedling spread out evenly over a tile while planting. 
Title: Re: A maple project
Post by: bwaynef on January 22, 2013, 01:48 PM
Good Wayne, Thanks!  Using a washer is a lot easier than trying to get the fine roots of a seedling spread out evenly over a tile while planting. 

I was looking at these seedlings yesterday and am eager to repot them.  I'm hoping they will have thrown enough roots above the washer to warrant removing them, ...but I'll have to be patient for a few more weeks.

Regarding the even spreading of roots on a tile, we might be talking about two different things.  While I've done the exact thing w/ tile that I've depicted here with washers, it seems to me that what you're describing is a means to correct or improve existing roots ...where the technique mentioned above was to CREATE roots (and flare). 

If you're willing to sacrifice what's there, you can put a seedling through a tile and allow growth to cause the seedling to layer itself.  ...Or you can slap a tile under your tree and figure out a way to secure the two together and allow the tile to improve what roots are growing.


In other news, is it March yet?
Title: Re: A maple project
Post by: Don Dunn on January 22, 2013, 03:33 PM
bwaynef
I was wondering what time of the year did the squirrels eat you maples? If it was winter maybe they were having a hard time finding food. I never had that problem here in California but you have me a little worried now.
Title: Re: A maple project
Post by: Chrisl on January 22, 2013, 04:37 PM
It'll be interesting in your results Wayne! Thanks for the update
Title: Re: A maple project
Post by: Don Dunn on January 27, 2013, 01:47 AM
How tall will you let them get before you top them? Or will you let them grow to thicken the trunks?
Title: Re: A maple project
Post by: bwaynef on January 27, 2013, 09:34 AM
Its not so much a function of height as much as I need the trunks to thicken enough to force it to layer itself and throw roots above the washer.  I'll check them soon to see how this "crop" of seedlings have grown/layered.
Title: Re: A maple project
Post by: bwaynef on February 22, 2013, 10:25 AM
No pictures before anyone asks.

I was a little disappointed in the results.  So far, my test has been inconclusive.  What I mean is that very few of the seedlings had grown enough for the washer to be impacting roots.  I noticed that several of the maples that I had NOT placed thru a washer ...but had done good root work on (apparently there was enough decent roots to not warrant the washer)  were beginning to excel. 

A few addendums were I to begin this experiment anew.  Firstly, I would plant the trees in larger pots to allow for more rampant growth.  I might also experiment with a less porous/aerated mix. 

Second, the seedlings in an akadama/lava/pumice mix seemed to have better quality roots but not nearly the volume of those in a mix that substituted turface for akadama.  Those seedlings' roots certainly had more volume ...but at the expense of lesser quality, longer, bigger roots.  My guess is that in the long run, those in akadama would lead, but in the all-out-growth phase I'm not concerned with the quality of the roots I'm growing ...since they'll be removed below the washer anyway.

C.)  As with all my trees, more attention, water, and fertilizer would certainly help to get these going.


But.... as I mentioned previously, I'm seeing nice development that is simply the result of appropriate/traditional repotting technique/maintenance.  In this case, those seem to be developing more quickly.

I'll continue to monitor and update.
Title: Re: A maple project
Post by: reefed419 on October 29, 2014, 01:21 PM
Wayne, any update on this project?
Title: Re: A maple project
Post by: akeppler on October 29, 2014, 08:33 PM
I planted some this year and this is what I got this season. I planted five thru one 1/2" hole.
Title: Re: A maple project
Post by: bwaynef on October 29, 2014, 09:18 PM
I started a spring repotting thread here this spring that showed a couple of these maple seedlings through the washer.  I didn't get pictures of many of them, but I've got lots planted through a 6" tile that I'll be taking the first look at this coming spring (...for some of them). 

I'll try to get pictures ...but I'm not good at remembering to do it.
Title: Re: A maple project
Post by: John Kirby on November 03, 2014, 04:17 PM
Al, the joys of living in sunny California......