Author Topic: Zuicho JWP "Mini-me"  (Read 19917 times)

DorianJF

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Re: Zuicho JWP "Mini-me"
« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2015, 06:52 AM »
Adair

What is the actual height?
 

Adair M

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Re: Zuicho JWP "Mini-me"
« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2015, 09:59 AM »
I didn't measure the height, sorry. It's about 24 inches.
 

DorianJF

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Re: Zuicho JWP "Mini-me"
« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2015, 12:56 PM »
Really a great tree.

 

Leo in NE Illinois

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Re: Zuicho JWP "Mini-me"
« Reply #18 on: January 30, 2015, 04:42 PM »
Great tree, a great future ahead for it.

For what it is worth, in ggeneral, yatsubusa varieties of pines are much more likely to air layer successfully. JWP is not a species known to air lay well at all. Many cultivars refuse to co-operate. But IF your going to have success at air layering, the chances of success with yatsubusa types will be somewhat higher. The only JWP I have tried to air layer, was Arakawa, and it refused to form roots, 4 years and no roots. The age of the wood at the point where the air layer is made may be a factor. I suspect younger wood will be slightly more likely to root.
 

Adair M

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Re: Zuicho JWP "Mini-me"
« Reply #19 on: January 30, 2015, 05:24 PM »
Leo, this tree was not airlayered. It ground layered. The trunk was potted deep, and new roots started above the Black Pine rootstock.

I'm not sure if Boon knew this when he originally purchased it. He told me he discovered the dual root systems when he repotted it. And that's when he removed the original JBP roots.

This same thing had happened to John Kirby's Kokonoe. We will never know if either tree was layered intentionally, or just happened on its own.

Zuisho and Kokonoe layer fairly well, and will grow from cuttings.

In both cases, this has proven to have been fortunate. Grafting onto JBP accelerates the growth rate of the tree. The downside is the ugly graft scar. And, often the grafts fail, even years or decades later. The growth rate of black pine and white pine differ, and sometimes the grafts no longer match up, and the tree dies.

Having the tree on its own roots eliminates that issue. But the tree benefitted from the JBP roots in its youth.

So it leaves us to wonder whether it was just luck?  Or were the trees started this way by design?
 

William N. Valavanis

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Re: Zuicho JWP "Mini-me"
« Reply #20 on: January 30, 2015, 10:30 PM »
Are you certain the Zuisho was grafted onto Japanese Black Pine?  According to Japanese literature and nursery practices Zuisho is grafted onto Japanese five-needle pine (Pinus parviflora) because it is NOT compatible with Japanese Black Pine.

When I was propagating Zuisho over 30 years ago I only used Japanese five-needle pine for understock.

Bill
 

Adair M

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Re: Zuicho JWP "Mini-me"
« Reply #21 on: January 31, 2015, 08:05 AM »
Interesting question, Bill. I will ask Boon. He told me JBP. But it's certainly possible that it was white pine stock.
 

Adair M

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Re: Zuicho JWP "Mini-me"
« Reply #22 on: January 31, 2015, 08:34 PM »
The plot thickens...

Boon tells me that he was taught to graft Zuisho onto JBP with a plan to airlayer it off later once the trunk has obtained the desired size. Seems there's more than one way to skin a cat!

Boon says this particular tree used to have JBP roots. Boon does say that JBP roots will fail eventually on Zuisho.
 

Don Blackmond

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Re: Zuicho JWP "Mini-me"
« Reply #23 on: February 01, 2015, 09:47 AM »
Great tree.  Great thread.  Horrible pot.
 

Adair M

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Re: Zuicho JWP "Mini-me"
« Reply #24 on: February 01, 2015, 11:14 AM »
Training pot, Don, training pot.

It has its permanent pot tucked away, biding it's time...

Sorry, I forgot to take a picture.

Actually, the pot it's in is a pretty nice pot. Just way too deep for this tree.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2015, 11:16 AM by Adair M »
 

John Kirby

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Re: Zuicho JWP "Mini-me"
« Reply #25 on: February 01, 2015, 01:35 PM »
Yep, I have seen the pot that this tree is going in to. Very nice, very subtle custom made Gyouzan pot.

Bill,
I know Kokonoe on JBP roots are extremely unstable when they get large. I take it from your comment that Zuisho are even  worse. Do you know why? I know I haven't seen any. John
 

Don Blackmond

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Re: Zuicho JWP "Mini-me"
« Reply #26 on: February 01, 2015, 05:03 PM »
Training pot, Don, training pot.

It has its permanent pot tucked away, biding it's time...

Sorry, I forgot to take a picture.

Actually, the pot it's in is a pretty nice pot. Just way too deep for this tree.

I assumed so.  Just saying.  I like the tree.  I like the pot.  I don't like the tree in the pot for obvious reasons.

I have a bunch of trees wearing the wrong shoes....
 

Leo in NE Illinois

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Re: Zuicho JWP "Mini-me"
« Reply #27 on: February 04, 2015, 01:25 PM »
Thanks Adair and Bill for the additional info on grafting and layering.

I will bury the graft union on my JWP Arakawa, and hope some day it will spontaneously root, though I think the reluctance of this cultivar to air layer higher up in the tree does not bode well for the eventual 'natural' or spontaneous ground layering by potting it deep enough to bury the graft union. But it is a small enough specimen, with a decent low graft, so it is possible to bury the graft without going back to a nursery can for a pot. Thanks for the info.

 

Adair M

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Re: Zuicho JWP "Mini-me"
« Reply #28 on: February 04, 2015, 04:41 PM »
Leo, I doubt that would work. If you are determined to have JWP roots, the way to go is by doing root grafts of little JWP seedlings onto the JWP trunk.
 

Herman

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Re: Zuicho JWP "Mini-me"
« Reply #29 on: February 16, 2015, 02:01 AM »
Hello Mr Adair,

I've been so busy on new projects at work that I missed this lovely white pine of yours?! Congrats, Its a real showy tree. Maybe one day when I've grown up and I'm rich can I make a purchase like this one  ;D

I want to start experimenting with Adcocks dwarf read on evergreen gardenworks that they are more heat tolerant than the species, maybe see if I can get a motherplant and graft some stock before I've grown up and its too late, anyway...

lovely white pine!!!

best regards
Herman