Author Topic: white pine care  (Read 23609 times)

Adair M

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Re: white pine care
« Reply #45 on: April 29, 2014, 01:11 PM »
Herman,


You're entering winter, right?  Have the old, two year old needles begun to drop off?  They usually dry up and fall off at the slightest touch.  Once that happens, the tree is essentially dormant.  Good time to wire and style.  You can also trim back other needles at that time if you need to open it up to allow sunlight inside.  This will help stimulate backbudding.

Quite frankly, I'm amazed you're able to keep JWP at all.  With the summer heat and all.

 

Herman

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Re: white pine care
« Reply #46 on: April 30, 2014, 02:25 AM »
haha I'm not in the clear yet Adair, but it looks promising because the tree will have a dormancy, right? old needles have been dropping since middle march yes, I actually thought the tree was going to kick the bucket, not being used to seeing a white pine do this, because I thought that maybe I watered it too much or too little...yes winter is coming, had our first frosts yesterday morning, and it will continue to frost every morning until spring comes in September. The frost will just increase in severety as we go along.

I have a theory about the heat tolerance; I have tried to establish in which part of china this tree was grown, though generally China has very hot summers. some parts going wel over the 100 farenheit mark. Maybe this tree is used to extreme heat in summer? the fact that it was grafted to black pine roots also gives the tree as a whole more tolerance to heat? maybe also this "horible" soil mix keeps enough water to keep the soil cool enough for our hot days? ive measured the temps in the soil at mid day and it was a lot cooler than the ambient temps outside of the pot and the surface temps around it

but the need for cool roots will be managed by the shade net I'm putting up. how much sun does a dormant white pine need to bud out nicely in spring? I may have to move this tree to the cold southern side that doesnt get much sun and stays rather cold during the day. We still have our warm winter days of 25 celcius

best regards
Herman
 

Herman

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Re: white pine care
« Reply #47 on: May 08, 2014, 02:30 AM »
Hi guys,

I've decided to wire this pine out, I know I wanted to repot before I start styling. But I kinda checked the roots, and it seems the tree was potted up last year. Since the tree is strong with nice buds and I am not going to repot it this coming spring, I might just as well start the wiring process.

I will update with pics once I'm finished.

kind regards
Herman
 

Herman

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Re: white pine care
« Reply #48 on: May 12, 2014, 03:33 AM »
An update,


Kind regards
Herman
 

Judy

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Re: white pine care
« Reply #49 on: May 12, 2014, 08:43 AM »
Looks pretty good Herman, too bad it's determined to be sideways... :D
 

izk_zero

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Re: white pine care
« Reply #50 on: May 12, 2014, 11:41 PM »
Very nice tree Herman. I rotated the images.
 

Herman

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Re: white pine care
« Reply #51 on: May 13, 2014, 02:07 AM »
Looks pretty good Herman, too bad it's determined to be sideways... :D

Hi Judy :),

Thanks for the compliment. o wei hahaha, it kept falling over after I fed it beer to get those thick branches nice and supple :o  ;D :P

Very nice tree Herman. I rotated the images.


Thanks Zero for the compliment and sobering up my pine hahahaha...



On a seriouos note though, do you guys think I can improve the pads I've wired out by making them wider and/or flatter. Maybe some other suggestions? Any advice and comments welcome

Kind regards
Herman
 

Herman

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Re: white pine care
« Reply #52 on: June 12, 2014, 05:13 AM »
Hi guys,

Early this morning I noticed something on my white pine. There are two branches coming from the same branch that has 1 - 1.5 cm long needles and 9 small buds on each. What could this be?

Will upload photos shortly of a normal branch tip and these odd branch tips

kind regards
Herman
 

Herman

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Re: white pine care
« Reply #53 on: June 12, 2014, 05:16 AM »
1st pic is of a nomal shoot and the 2nd is of the weird shoot

Kind regards
Herman
 

BonsaiEngineer1493

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Re: white pine care
« Reply #54 on: June 12, 2014, 06:52 AM »
Herman,

Very nice. From the rotated pictures I like the third one down from the top. The movement is very well expressed in that position. I'm not sure what that could be. It sounds like your not in spring so it's not pollen sacks. Hopefully the others here can help.
 

Herman

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Re: white pine care
« Reply #55 on: June 12, 2014, 08:51 AM »
Thnx Engineer :)

those are buds, and a lot of them on one shoot ???

kind regards
Herman
 

Adair M

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Re: white pine care
« Reply #56 on: June 12, 2014, 03:03 PM »
Looks like back budding, Herman.

On a previous post, you asked if you should make your pads flatter, etc.

Detail wiring and styling is very difficult to describe in words.  I will make an attempt:

Every twig should be wired.  Branches should be pruned and trained so that there is a central leader, and alternating left and right branches coming off the central leader.  Too often, the novice (including myself) left too many branches coming off at one spot.  This makes for a fan shaped branch.  Not what we want in an ideal world.  We want triangular shaped branches when they are viewed from above.  That's step one.

Then, wire everything.  Out to the base of the terminal bud.  Then, when styling, we want the bottoms of the pads to be flat.  Style the branch at eye level.  You should, on pines, see a little of the wood under the pad.  Each bud should have it's own space.  Two (or more) buds should not appear to be fighting for control of the space.  Either spread them out a little, or remove one.  The buds should be wired so that the terminal bud is tilted up at about a 45 degree angle.  All at the same angle.  Not straight out, and not straight up.

Remember what I said about alternating branches?  Add to that, there should be some top secondary branches.  These are wired to follow the main branch line.  The terminal tips are turned up at the same angle as the terminals.  These give height and depth to the pads.  Eventually, several years from now, you will cut back to these to replace the existing terminal branches as they will inevitably grow too long.

See my thread, "Intensive Work".  Boon and I worked on refining the pads, doing exactly what I just tried to describe.  Look at the photos I took from above.  You should be able to see some top branches.  (It's tough to see in 2D.  If you were with the tree, you'd be able to see them quite clearly.)

Good luck!
 

Herman

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Re: white pine care
« Reply #57 on: July 03, 2014, 04:23 AM »
Hi Adair,

Thanks for the info, I like that you've teached me another way of creating branch pads. I will use this method and add it to the others I have learned. Don't worry you've explained it quite well :) I think this pine still looks rough because i didn't have enough twigs to do any convincing fine detail wiring on some branches. I hope to get better detail out of the tree the next time I wire it. I might not wire it next autumn so that i can repot it into a better mix the spring after

kind regards
Herman
 

Adair M

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Re: white pine care
« Reply #58 on: July 03, 2014, 09:41 AM »
Yes, white pines grow slowly.  The do back bud, but only reluctantly.  To create the look of full pads, it takes skillful wiring.

If you view the video series "The Bonsai Art of Japan" on YouTube, several episodes will show wiring/styling techniques for white pine.  If you notice, they try to use every bud tip.  On Black Pine, it's more common to cut back because eventually you'll get back budding which is used to create nice pads.

I have noticed that even nice JWP tend to be "hollow" on the inside.  That is, they'll have beautiful silhouettes, but have little interior foliage. 

You know that "dome" style apex that most JWP feature?  It really blocks the sun from the interior of the tree.  But that's just the way JWP grow.

Different from JBP.  JBP apexes tend to be "pointier" than JWP.  More vigorous tree.  And since they are more vertical, they let more light in to the trunk.
 

Herman

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Re: white pine care
« Reply #59 on: July 04, 2014, 06:10 AM »
I had a question, those clusters of 7 to 9 buds on a very short shoot, you sure its backbudding adair? I've inspected it and another friends white pine and his does not have any shoots with as many buds on them. I tried finding the terminal buds on that shoot and realised something; those tight clusters of buds are what once was the terminal bud. I found a two year old shoot below that cluster with normal length needles(quite a strong shoot with a lot of needles) then above these needles is this cluster with tiny buds and super short needles. might it be a witches broom?

kind regards
Herman