Bonsai Study Group Forum

Species Specific => White Pine Bonsai Discussion => Topic started by: John Kirby on August 11, 2009, 08:38 PM

Title: Root connected JWP
Post by: John Kirby on August 11, 2009, 08:38 PM
Sorry this picture is not more instructive, but here is a picture of Akio Kondo, a Bonsai Professional from Japan, and Mr Kamiya's first apprentice (and Boon's senior), pruning my large white pine root connected grove. The tree came from the estate of John Kipp and is shown now almost five years after I purchased it. It was quite ill at the time and had not been repotted in at least a decade. I repotted it and have let it gain strength. It is a beast, and will take at least 3 to 4 days for wiring (if a professional is doing it). it currently has 10 trunks , will need to lose one, and is potted in a 48 inch chinese pot. I hope to find a native stone slab for it. More to come in the spring. The second picture shows it post pruning, and after turning around.

John
(the prunings filled half of a 35 gallon rubbish can.....)
Title: Re: Root connected JWP
Post by: boon on August 11, 2009, 10:06 PM
he told me it is good tree(s).  i took him to the airport this morning.

pruning bonsai on the ladder! lol
Title: Re: Root connected JWP
Post by: MatsuBonsai on August 12, 2009, 08:02 AM
Just a few more inches off the top and I'm sure I can get it in the back of my car.  Don't you think it would do well in Kentucky?!??!

I really enjoy this tree and can't wait to see it all wired.
Title: Re: Root connected JWP
Post by: John Kirby on August 12, 2009, 09:00 AM
Right. I am looking as to where I can take the fence down and put in a 72" gate to get it into the shop to be wired. The tree will need to be on the ground to wire the top, or i will nee some scaffolding.....

John
Title: Re: Root connected JWP
Post by: Jeff Lahr on August 12, 2009, 10:36 AM
John, I'm always amazed at the trees that I see coming from you place. Do you give tours to wayward Californians?
Title: Re: Root connected JWP
Post by: AlexV on August 12, 2009, 10:53 AM
That is a serious grove.  I would love to see some detail shots of the trunks when you manage to get it inside.  Do you have any idea how old it is?

Alex
Title: Re: Root connected JWP
Post by: John Kirby on August 12, 2009, 05:13 PM
My understanding is that the grove came over in the 50's. The bark is probably right on the main trunks, but not on the smaller ones, so I would say the 60's or 70's. So, the tree is most likely in the 50 year rage- + or -. John
Title: Re: Root connected JWP
Post by: bonsaikc on August 12, 2009, 07:23 PM
John,
When do you plan to wire this baby? If it's spring, I will probably be able to come down and help, having established myself a bit better here.

Chris
Title: Re: Root connected JWP
Post by: johng on August 12, 2009, 08:03 PM
I remember this group from DC...its huge but totally cool!!  John, you got a great deal!!  I am glad to know I might be able to follow the future of this one. 
Thanks for posting!
John
Title: Re: Root connected JWP
Post by: T-Town Bonsai on August 12, 2009, 08:38 PM
John,
Glad to see that you are getting those trees worked on.  Wish I could have been there. 
Frank
Title: Re: Root connected JWP
Post by: John Kirby on August 12, 2009, 09:55 PM
Franklin,
You aren't OK any more. Now you are something else, Oh well. You working on your trees?
Title: Re: Root connected JWP
Post by: T-Town Bonsai on August 12, 2009, 10:04 PM
John,
You're right I am no longer OK.  I guess that's what happens when you get a real job. 
When school starts I will have more time to work on my trees.  I have my string line set and one hole dug on the shade house.  Shouldn't take too long to get it set up.  Can't do too much right now as I had a wasp nail me(more than once) and my hand looks like a boxing glove.  Oh well at least I get a check twice a month. 
Sorry everyone for the non-bonsai babble.
Frank
Title: Re: Root connected JWP
Post by: Dan W. on September 24, 2012, 09:44 AM
Are there any pics of this one wired yet?
Title: Re: Root connected JWP
Post by: John Kirby on September 24, 2012, 12:03 PM
Dan, The summer of 10 I moved to Rhode Island, my wife and the trees moved in late spring of 11 and we got a house in Connecticut. I was ready to do it this year, Boon came in March and thought we should repot it as it had been six years and it was pushing itself up and out of a 42+ Inch pot. Se we repotted it, and took at least 70% of the roots and soil off and got it replanted into the 28" Yamaaki oval it had lived in before I got it. The tree sulked a bit and finally started pushing well in late June, Akio was scheduled to come this summer to work on it, we decided to let it sit until spring, or if timing doesn't woe until next fall. I will try and get pictures of it in the old pot. One advantage, I can move it by myself in a real pinch or my wife and I can move it pretty easily together.

John
Title: Re: Root connected JWP
Post by: Dan W. on September 25, 2012, 10:50 AM
Thanks John,

Smart choices. I'm looking forward to seeing what you do with it! :)
Title: Re: Root connected JWP
Post by: John Kirby on August 26, 2013, 07:00 PM
So, 4 years later. Repotted this tree with Boon in April 2012.  Thd tree wentback into its original 32" shallow old Tokoname pot it was in when I purchased it in 2005. In 2006 I had repotted it in to a 42+" deeper pot to get it healthy again. As expected the repotting knocked it back, slowing it down. Further, in February thr polyhouse I keep my conifers in collapsed during an almost 4' snow. Being trapped under the snow weakened the two back trunks and they failed to produce new buds. As the tree had 10 trunks, previously one died right after I purchased it, we decided to remove the two dying trunks and one more to make it a 7 trunk root connected tree. Akio spent 3 days on this tree, the first trunk to the left required two 4 gauge copper wires- and guy wires and a brace to get it right. Anyway, first styling done. First picture, Akio sizing up a 2 meter wide tree and the second is three days later, about 5 feet wide and ready to grow on.
Title: Re: Root connected JWP
Post by: Judy on August 26, 2013, 07:03 PM
wow... just ...wow...
Title: Re: Root connected JWP
Post by: John Kirby on August 26, 2013, 08:14 PM
I a am off by 5-10 degrees of the front, will try and get a better picture head on from the front. It was on the phone and I didn't notice until seeing it on the bigger screen.
Title: Re: Root connected JWP
Post by: tmmason10 on August 26, 2013, 08:53 PM
I'm with Judy. Wow. Such a large specimen but very well done.
Title: Re: Root connected JWP
Post by: Adair M on August 26, 2013, 09:02 PM
John,

That's going to be a great one when it fills in!

Judy, you should see the trees that John keeps at Boon's!  Incredible trees. I was lucky enough to work on one at my last Intensive.  He has some shohin that are so dense that you can't even see the trunk, and yet they're fully wired!  Kind of like a ship in a bottle.
Title: Re: Root connected JWP
Post by: bwaynef on August 26, 2013, 09:07 PM
In a first styling like this, is the wiring primarily there to set branch angles and allow for light penetration?  Or is it wired sparsely, not just because of a lack of ramification but also in consideration of the health of the tree?
Title: Re: Root connected JWP
Post by: John Kirby on August 27, 2013, 08:17 AM
Wayne,
Good questions. I think the goal of the first styling is to set the general pattern for the tree. That is, place the branches in position to support the development of the foliage pads, to get the trunks positioned (in the case of multiple trees or trunks) and to set the outer limits of the design. The general hope is as the tree grows you will be able to shorten some branches and lat others grow into the desired silhouette and with adequate branch density. The amount of wire on this tree is more than one might think, probably 4+ kilos, there is a kilo of #4 alone, Gremel is going to enjoy the reorder. The final piece is that once the tree was completed, it was fertilized heavily, I had been feeding it moderately to keep the needles a little shorter than they like to be when growth is unfettered. We really put the fertilizer on when done, I use organic fertilizer (yes, Al with Humate!) and will keep adding fertilizer until the trees go to sleep in late November-Early December.

I spent the better part of 9 full days with Akio and trees. I spent a good deal of that time doing what I believe is the most difficult part of tree design, at least for me- selecting and pruning branches to make the design happen. Notice all of the JBP branches near Akio in the first picture, prep work on trees to be wired this winter. I spent last weekend pruning a group of 8-9 year old JB pines for shohin (about 100) and reworking and pruning about 40 old box woods, getting them ready for spring repotting. Next weekend, I have a group of about 100 6-7 year Scots Pines for shohin to prepare, spending a vacation week on branch selection was a good prep for this work.
Title: Re: Root connected JWP
Post by: Chrisl on August 28, 2013, 11:18 AM
Wow is right, what a unique and beautiful tree John!
Title: Re: Root connected JWP
Post by: Adair M on August 28, 2013, 01:05 PM
John,

I know this tree wasn't wired before Akio wired it. What is the proper protocall if it had been wired?  Should one leave the wire on, and have the Professional remove it?  Or should it be removed so that the professional doesn't have to spend his time removing old wire?
Title: Re: Root connected JWP
Post by: John Kirby on August 28, 2013, 07:16 PM
Adair,

This tree was wired many times in its past. However, as you note, the tree did not have wire on it when work started. With the professional, time is money, so do what you have to do to be ready for them. A tree like this wired could take  day to desire, so I would remove the wire. When I work with Akio, Daisaku or Boon, I remove the wire before they get their hands on a tree. Hope that helps.
Title: Re: Root connected JWP
Post by: bwaynef on August 28, 2013, 08:02 PM
What are the ribbons for?
Title: Re: Root connected JWP
Post by: Adair M on August 28, 2013, 08:08 PM
John,

That helps a lot. 

The first surprise I had at my first Intensive is how to unwire.  I had been doing it wrong.  In fact, whenever I teach my classes, everyone tells me that they had always been taught to cut the wire off.  I tell them, that's the way I had been taught, too, but Boon's way is better.
Title: Re: Root connected JWP
Post by: tmmason10 on August 28, 2013, 08:39 PM
John,

That helps a lot. 

The first surprise I had at my first Intensive is how to unwire.  I had been doing it wrong.  In fact, whenever I teach my classes, everyone tells me that they had always been taught to cut the wire off.  I tell them, that's the way I had been taught, too, but Boon's way is better.


What is boons way for us that don't know? Unwinding the wire?
Title: Re: Root connected JWP
Post by: John Kirby on August 28, 2013, 10:04 PM
So , if you wind the wire on correctly it can be twisted off easily by grabbing the end of the wire with pliers. Works great.

Wayne, you asked the $10 question. The tree needs a few grafts next winter (7 to be precise). The green tape was Akios way of marking strong buds to be cut off and used for grafting .
Title: Re: Root connected JWP
Post by: Yenling83 on August 29, 2013, 11:23 AM
Love it! Looking very good, excited to continue seeing the development. 
Title: Re: Root connected JWP
Post by: bwaynef on August 29, 2013, 11:44 AM
Wayne,
Good questions.

Wayne, you asked the $10 question.

Do any of these good questions get me access to some of those trees you're working on? 

Thanks for posting awesome material, ...and following up on all the (really good!) questions so we can learn.
Title: Re: Root connected JWP
Post by: augustine on August 30, 2013, 09:12 AM
John,

This tree is fantastic and I doubt there's another like it in the country. Is this a collected tree?

I just read an article in International Bonsai, a series with Mr. Kimura, in which he states that an ideal time for pruning and pulling candles is in mid-Sept. Even though this is in Japan, I thought this was early. The specific JWP in the article was grown from seed and not grafted. When do you prune JWP in CT?

Thanks and best regards,

Ray
central MD 7a