Bonsai Study Group Forum

Species Specific => White Pine Bonsai Discussion => Topic started by: Adair M on October 14, 2011, 12:46 AM

Title: Project tree purchased from Brussel's
Post by: Adair M on October 14, 2011, 12:46 AM
Here's a little JWP I'm working on.  I really like the fact the graft scar is hardly noticeable.  I don't like the fact the first branch sticks straight out at you, even though it's been trained over to the left.  The nice taper at the bottom of the trunk is what attracted me to this tree.

Title: Re: Project tree purchased from Brussel's
Post by: bonsaiTom on October 14, 2011, 05:25 AM
Nice!  Good features.

Concerning the "eye poker" first branch - if this has to be the front I would (if it was mine) remove it. BUT what is the other side like? If you could reverse it this branch might be useful for the new 'back'.

Want to show the other view?
Title: Re: Project tree purchased from Brussel's
Post by: John Kirby on October 14, 2011, 07:45 AM
What does the tree look like turned 90 degrees clockwise? It looks like we are looking at the trees right side ( your. Left when you face it).
Title: Re: Project tree purchased from Brussel's
Post by: Adair M on October 14, 2011, 09:28 AM
Here are more pics:
Title: Re: Project tree purchased from Brussel's
Post by: John Kirby on October 14, 2011, 10:02 AM
Well, these little trees always have some compromises to be made (that is all little trees). Removing the unnecessary branches, like the one poking you in the eye, letting the lower branches grow to add scale, limiting the growth of the upper branches and getting a good angle on the branches that have been wired. For example, getting the lower branches to have a slight downward positioning, separating the secondary benches and giving the buds a slight upward position.

Can be a very nice little tree.
Title: Re: Project tree purchased from Brussel's
Post by: Adair M on October 14, 2011, 10:47 AM
Thanks for your comments, John, I appreciate them.  Yeah, if it were a "perfect" tree, the grower in Japan would never have sold it to Brussel's in the first place.

The only reason I'm holding onto the first low branch on the left (the "eye poker") is the totally irrational concept that it may add a bit to the taper.  Of course, what's directly below it is the black pine stock, so it's going to fatten more than the white pine trunk, so that really is no defense of that argument!  I guess I'm suffering from the old "once you cut it off, you can't put it back on syndrome". 

I probably ought to take the small branch that's directly above it off, too, so that the first branch is the large one on the right.

There is no taper to speak of in the middle section of the tree, unfortunately.  I really ought to take off the continuation of the trunk just above the second large branch on the right.  The reason I haven't is it would make the apex "pointy", and JWPs look best with rounded apexes.  I know I can develop that with time...

Maybe next week I'll have time to do some more wiring.

John, I noticed you're in Arkansas?  My wife is from Mena, about 10 miles from Oklahoma.  In the 20 years we've been married, Mena has been hit with 2 bad tornados.  I hope you weren't affected.

Cheers!
Title: Re: Project tree purchased from Brussel's
Post by: Jerry Norbury on October 14, 2011, 02:19 PM
What kind of price range are these imported trees in the US? Over here we pay around $250 for this size.
Title: Re: Project tree purchased from Brussel's
Post by: John Kirby on October 14, 2011, 03:41 PM
Hey, I wouldn't chop too much off of this tree (is a common activity for some). You have a nice tree that needs to have its branches grown out. With creative wiring and branch placement, the issues that you raised can be easily concealed. My suggestion to select branches (at least the ones you will likely use) was so that you could get them positioned correctly and get them sized the way you like. Branches that will be used as sacrifices can be managed as needed. Nice tree, is ready to start working on.

We lived in Arkansas for a number of years, we moved to Connecticut this year and are getting settled. The Pines love it so far.

John
Title: Re: Project tree purchased from Brussel's
Post by: coh on October 14, 2011, 06:45 PM
Hey, I was wondering - can't really see from the photo - but in the back view (photo 3 in your second post), is there a large chop scar at the big bend to the right? Or perhaps a number of branches coming out toward the viewer? I think I prefer the trunk line in your original photo. Think if you choose that view, those 2 lowest "eye-poking" branches would probably have to come off. I was playing around with that in photoshop and came up with a quick, rough "virt" (attached image). Removing them leaves a lot of trunk exposed, but it does have nice taper and a decent bend near the base. Maybe some foliage from the lowest branch could be brought in front of part of the trunk to break it up a bit?

Not sure about the apex, can't tell from the photo where branches originate. Might have to regrow the apex above the second branch on the right? Anyway, virt is very crude because I'm not really very good with photoshop...

Chris

Title: Re: Project tree purchased from Brussel's
Post by: bonsaiTom on October 15, 2011, 05:58 AM
Chris,  Your photoshop talents are good. I'm liking this project tree a lot and would be very proud to have it. We will all enjoy the progressive development. Wish we had it here in UpstateNY for a closer look.
Title: Re: Project tree purchased from Brussel's
Post by: John Kirby on October 15, 2011, 08:52 AM
Nice virts. Look at the little JWP at the top of the page (tree of the month), when designing canopies, look to see how you can make a canopy more like that. Of course, I am still in the stick figure phase of life........
Title: Re: Project tree purchased from Brussel's
Post by: Jerry Norbury on October 15, 2011, 09:24 AM
I disagree, I would definitely NOT try to produce the tree that Chris made in his virt (sorry Chris). To me it looks nothing like a tree - it looks like an artificial bonsai.
Title: Re: Project tree purchased from Brussel's
Post by: coh on October 15, 2011, 10:32 AM
That's OK Jerry...my intention was (is) not to produce a finished "virt" for someone to copy, but to see what a potential tree structure might look like with those lower left branches removed.

Chris
Title: Re: Project tree purchased from Brussel's
Post by: Adair M on October 15, 2011, 03:00 PM
Ok, here's two more shots of the little pine.  One is at the chop where the first main branch to the right is.  As you can see, it's really three branches!  There's a project!

And, at the top of the second section of trunk, where the apex should start, the C continues on towards the right. But there a nice little apex that creates great taper that I would prefer to use.  But, if I chop the heavy back branch, it would create a hole in my current apex. 

By the way, I'm having difficulty getting my photos small enough!  I'm using an iphone 4, then reducing the size on my comptuer to the "smallest" setting, and I'm getting them rejected.  I found if I use a white background rather than black, it helps to create a smaller file.  Any suggestions would be helpful.

Title: Re: Project tree purchased from Brussel's
Post by: 0soyoung on October 16, 2011, 01:05 AM
By the way, I'm having difficulty getting my photos small enough!

You can reduce you photos easily with the free program Paint.Net' http://paint.net/ (http://paint.net/) as well as do a lot of other Photoshop kind of stuff.
Title: Re: Project tree purchased from Brussel's
Post by: Chrisl on October 16, 2011, 01:04 PM
Or you can download Google's Picasa which lets you set the number of pixels/file size.   I like it pretty good for being free.
Title: Re: Project tree purchased from Brussel's
Post by: Adair M on April 03, 2012, 09:47 PM
An update.

I did a little wiring to improve the apex.  I brought it forward, which forshortens it.  It's also a bit rounder.  It needs more work, but this is really not the best time of year.  It is backbudding, and I don't want to take the chance of damaging those fragile buds.  So, with this, I'll let it be until fall.  I'll check to make sure the existing wire is not cutting in, and remove it before it does.  It is budding nicely.

Oh, the photo was taken just after a thunderstom, so the trunk is dark.

Title: Re: Project tree purchased from Brussel's
Post by: BonsaiEngineer1493 on October 13, 2012, 10:42 PM
An update.

I did a little wiring to improve the apex.  I brought it forward, which forshortens it.  It's also a bit rounder.  It needs more work, but this is really not the best time of year.  It is backbudding, and I don't want to take the chance of damaging those fragile buds.  So, with this, I'll let it be until fall.  I'll check to make sure the existing wire is not cutting in, and remove it before it does.  It is budding nicely.

Oh, the photo was taken just after a thunderstom, so the trunk is dark.



Did you purchase it from their online shop http://www.brusselsbonsai.com/ (http://www.brusselsbonsai.com/) or go directly to their nursery? how much did you spend ( if you don't mind)
Title: Re: Project tree purchased from Brussel's
Post by: Adair M on October 14, 2012, 04:57 PM
Actually, it was ebay. The seller name on ebay is Smith something or other.   But, it's Brussel's.  If you don't know about Brussel's, you should.  They are a huge bonsai wholesaler.  And they sell retail.  When you go on ebay, do a search for "five needle pine".  Brussel's lists their JWP that way.  They import huge numbers of trees from Japan.  And almost all JWPs are imported.

I think I paid $350 for that one.

Our hot summer was hard on it this year.
Title: Re: Project tree purchased from Brussel's
Post by: BonsaiEngineer1493 on October 19, 2012, 10:59 PM
I think your talking about 3017smith. Everything looks so overpriced on the items he is selling. I'm surprised that you got it for that price. It seems way lower than the prices he has listed.
Title: Re: Project tree purchased from Brussel's
Post by: Adair M on October 19, 2012, 11:16 PM
Oh, the tree has it's faults.  I do my best to overcome them.

Imported trees are expensive because they have to be quarantined for a year before they can be sold, and there is a significant amount of loss.  Trees that don't live thru the shipping/quarantine.

And then, remember that the ones they (the Japanese) are willing to sell for import are their "C" grade trees.

But, even those are better than what is grown here.  (For the most part.  There are small growers that produce exceptional material.)

As to whether any bonsai tree is "expensive" or not:  Trees take years to develop.  My little white pine is only about 10 inches tall.  So it was cheap.  What I liked was the grafting scar was nearly invisible, and the taper at the graft joint was good.  The rest of the tree didn't really matter, as it can be grown/shaped.  90% of the value of a bonsai is in the nebari and lower trunk to the first branch.
Title: Re: Project tree purchased from Brussel's
Post by: John Kirby on October 20, 2012, 01:33 PM
Bonsaiengineer, what would be a fair price for the trees Brussel has listed on his site, or on Ebay? How about the Juniper that is this months tree of the month? How about how much for a traight trident trunk that is 1/2-3/4 in diameter?
Title: Re: Project tree purchased from Brussel's
Post by: BonsaiEngineer1493 on October 21, 2012, 12:30 AM
I am just being observant. I notice trees that have similar features in one place and the same features on other trees in another place. However, the prices are different. Therefore, I logically assume that the trees with the higher prices could only be priced fair or possibly overpriced.
Title: Re: Project tree purchased from Brussel's
Post by: augustine on November 09, 2012, 09:45 AM
FWIW, I am a frugal shopper and think this tree is reasonably priced. What a great tree to have in your collection.

Best regards,

Raymond

Pasadena, (Central) Maryland - Zone 7A