Bonsai Study Group Forum

Species Specific => White Pine Bonsai Discussion => Topic started by: Dan W. on October 14, 2012, 04:26 PM

Title: Native Rocky Mountain white pines...aonyone working with?
Post by: Dan W. on October 14, 2012, 04:26 PM
I'm curious whether anyone else out there is working with Native five needle pines...? Specifically the Rocky Mountain versions, sutch as Limber, Bristlecone, White Bark... etc.

I have found a few via Google... Jerry Meiselik and Scot Elser showed up with Limber's, and there was one Bristlecone displayed at the ABS/BCI show in Denver.

I can't find anyone else sharing their work with these pines on forums or blogs... and would love to see anyones work.

Are there any significant reasons why these pines aren't used as much?

I have been collecting a few; here is my favorite (it's big!):

Title: Re: Native Rocky Mountain white pines...aonyone working with?
Post by: Owen Reich on October 14, 2012, 11:42 PM
Helps if you have trees that nice  ;D.  I've seen some online.  I think they were either owned or styled by one of the Portland pros; Neil or Hagedorn.  Thinking the latter though.  I hope to see more in shows.  One issue may be "springy" branches that don't hold after wiring.  Just a thought as I've never had any bigger than seedlings for Bristle Cone.  Had a lodge pole pine I collected near Mt. Hood, but a sawfly larvae defoliated it and killed it in a matter of hours.

Title: Re: Native Rocky Mountain white pines...aonyone working with?
Post by: augustine on October 15, 2012, 11:09 AM
Greetings to all,

Recently rec'd a Southwestern White Pine, Pinus Strobiformis, from Brent at Evergreen. Liked the catalog description and very pleased with the plant. Beautiful needle color and extremely well grown, buds and branches everywhere (and low where they count the most).

Live in the Chesapeake Bay region so the tree is a bit out of it's element. I'll have to see what I can do but it has potential. Needles are long, and will stay on the long side per Brent, so this will be a larger tree. The branches are very soft, much wiring will be necessary.

I'd be interested in anyone's experience with this species.

Best regards,

Raymond
Pasadena, (Central) MD - zone 7A
Title: Re: Native Rocky Mountain white pines...aonyone working with?
Post by: Dan W. on October 15, 2012, 01:43 PM
Thanks Owen,

I start in Feb., with Michael Hagedorn's seasonals; I'll have to ask him. Do you like your bristlecone seedlings? & Bummer about the lodgepole.

Raymond, good luck with yours. And be sure to share the progress.
Title: Re: Native Rocky Mountain white pines...aonyone working with?
Post by: cbobgo on October 15, 2012, 02:57 PM
I have a limber pine that I got from Oregon Bonsai 5 years ago.  It does not seem to be enjoying my sunny California weather as much as I would like, but it is still alive.  I have not done much with it yet, so can't really give you any advice.

- bob
Title: Re: Native Rocky Mountain white pines...aonyone working with?
Post by: Yenling83 on October 15, 2012, 04:42 PM
Nice tree, these are great for bonsai.  I think there are lots of native material we just have not explored enough yet.  I think it would just take one person who has some really nice one's to eventually make them popular.  I've collected in areas with native white pine, but I always end up collecting junipers because I find them  more frequently growing in granite pockets where you can get a good root ball.  For whatever reasons, I don't seem to find nice white pines growing in these pockets.   
Title: Re: Native Rocky Mountain white pines...aonyone working with?
Post by: John Kirby on October 15, 2012, 06:54 PM
Shore Pine=Lodgepole, Limber, Southwester White Pine, Short Needle Pine, Viginia Pine, etc. All work, the issues are associated with cultural issues.
Title: Re: Native Rocky Mountain white pines...aonyone working with?
Post by: Dan W. on October 15, 2012, 09:28 PM
Yenling, I have a few nice limbers, and many more I plan on collecting in the future (all growing in granite pockets). I will be offering some for sale starting next year.
Hopefully we can get some good ones into artists hands and into shows down the road. -- My business partner has some very nice ones as well.
Title: Re: Native Rocky Mountain white pines...aonyone working with?
Post by: Owen Reich on October 16, 2012, 08:01 AM
Dan, the Bristlecones may or may not be alive.  I put them in the care of a friend 2 years ago and they are sensitive to over-watering.  They were germinated 5 years ago and always grew well in Nashville.  You may have a potential client in the near future  ;D.  I'd love to see some photos of the WY yamadori.  I've visited the area a few times.  Beautiful.

The loss of that Lodgepole was tragic.  But I guess everyone will benefit for watching out for Sawfly larvae; aka demon caterpillar that eats pine needles.....

Thanks.
Title: Re: Native Rocky Mountain white pines...aonyone working with?
Post by: Chrisl on October 16, 2012, 11:08 AM
I'd love a lodgepole yamadori too Dan!  ;D  Be sure to let me know if/when you get your hands on some!

I'd never heard of sawfly larvae before, thanks for the education...and bummer about the tree!
Title: Re: Native Rocky Mountain white pines...aonyone working with?
Post by: Dan W. on October 16, 2012, 02:44 PM
Thanks guys. I'll be sure to let you know when I start getting trees posted for sale. I'll see what I can do about a WY Yamadori thread as well.
Title: Re: Native Rocky Mountain white pines...aonyone working with?
Post by: Dan W. on January 17, 2013, 12:59 AM
This is the one of only a very few Bristlecone bonsai I've ever seen... The ONLY Yamadori Bristlecone bonsai I've seen.
(Also a test to see if I can upload a picture from the ipad...)(if not I'll do it again later)

Title: Re: Native Rocky Mountain white pines...aonyone working with?
Post by: augustine on July 18, 2013, 10:18 AM
I have an update on my Pinus strobiformis.

My pine was fed and watered too much. New needles are long. I know that the food and water should be minimized early in the season, on white pines, to prevent long needles but I thought vigorous growth was called for since tree is in development. Live and learn.

Anyway the tree has quite a way to go so I'll adjust the culture in future years. I was happy to see quite a bit of backbudding with lots close to the trunk.

On the other hand, I have a small JWP that responded quite well to similar culture.

Greatly enjoying the learning process which has accelerated by joining a bonsai club.

Best,

Augustine
Title: Re: Native Rocky Mountain white pines...aonyone working with?
Post by: Dan W. on December 10, 2013, 12:58 PM
Thanks for the update Augustine. Pictures are always welcome  ;)
Title: Re: Native Rocky Mountain white pines...aonyone working with?
Post by: augustine on December 11, 2013, 11:17 AM
Dan,

I will post a picture soon but have add'l info.

I rec'd the plant in September 2012 and live in the very humid Chesapeake Bay region. Brent stated that he did not know how it would do in a humid area and I asked this group for opinions and rec'd some info from John Kirby to contact my cooperative extension service. They were not able to give specifics and referred me to the National Arboretum's Bonsai Collection. I'm lucky because I get to see Jack Sustic, the Curator, from time to time on the local bonsai scene. Jack suggested use of general fungicides on a regular basis.

Anyway approx 2 months after receipt the plant did develop some needle fungus which was treated with lime sulphur during the cold season, daconil in the spring with monthly treatments. The new foliage has not been affected by fungus. So far so good.

I wonder how a Limber Pine would do here? (The local nurseries sell the Vanderwolf cultivar.)

I've enjoy your blog and your trees are beautiful. Thanks for your interest.

Happy Holidays to all!

Augustine
Title: Re: Native Rocky Mountain white pines...aonyone working with?
Post by: M. Frary on December 13, 2013, 12:28 PM
     I have a  bristlecone. I treat it like a white pine except it takes less watering. Had it going on 2 years now. Not exactly a speed demon. I'm going to wire it this winter and in the spring maybe take a peek at the roots and see what going on down there. I'll post a picture when I get home and post it.
  While you wait for a picture of that here is my Eastern White Pine . She stands 12". I dug it up last spring just as it is. It was growing in the path of a brush mower and I saved it.
Title: Re: Native Rocky Mountain white pines...aonyone working with?
Post by: Dan W. on December 13, 2013, 01:16 PM
Thanks for the picture. I'm looking forward to the bristlecone. :)
Title: Re: Native Rocky Mountain white pines...aonyone working with?
Post by: M. Frary on December 13, 2013, 09:10 PM
  Took this picture as promised this evening. The roll of duct tape is for scale. It's in a cut down 5 gallon bucket that I bored full of
1/4" holes. It's in floor dry and pea gravel.
Title: Re: Native Rocky Mountain white pines...aonyone working with?
Post by: John Kirby on December 13, 2013, 09:46 PM
I finally made the leap and got a Limber pine from Todd here. Nice little tree will post pictures when I can.
Title: Re: Native Rocky Mountain white pines...aonyone working with?
Post by: Dan W. on December 13, 2013, 11:52 PM
Thanks M. Frary, I think your bristlecone will make a nice tree. :)

I'm looking forward to seeing your limber John! Todd has a lot of great trees!
Title: Re: Native Rocky Mountain white pines...aonyone working with?
Post by: M. Frary on December 14, 2013, 08:58 AM
   I like it too. The only thing hardly no one seems to have these trees. Or I should say hardly no one has any finished ones. So I guess it's up to me to write the book as they say. I found a few of these at a nursery near me and am going to pick a couple more up. I will keep posting about them and hopefully I will have a bristle one bonsai before I die...... should started a few years ago me thinks.
Title: Re: Native Rocky Mountain white pines...aonyone working with?
Post by: Leo in NE Illinois on January 23, 2014, 12:48 PM
Nice Bristlecone pine. I hope it continues to do well for you.

I had picked up P. aristata 3rd year seedlings, bare root, from Mussers, but they did not survive the first summer. Possibly my mistakes.

You are right, there is relatively little written on using US natives. I do have a 'Vanderwall's Pyramid' grafted about 4 years ago, that I picked up 2 years ago. Nice color, and fairly dense branching, lots of buds, internode lengths are not overly long. Too young to even begin to do bonsai activities. Right now the roots are entering their 3rd growing season in bonsai potting mix. Plan on air layering off a section, to get it onto its own roots.

I was surfing/shopping a conifer specialist, and noticed there are genetic dwarfs of many of the USA native white pines and even pinion pines (P. monophylla). There is even a short needled cultivar or two of eastern white pine (P. strobus). I think there is a lot of territory for exploration and experimentation, even from nursery stock, especially for those of us that laying down hundreds for collected material is not realistic. I do realize that with young nursery material, you need to add a lot of time, sometimes multiple decades. I am definitely going to keep exploring, and will share what information I can.