Author Topic: eastern white pine, are they really as bad as everyone says?  (Read 17540 times)

mc4mc44

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i live in an area surrounded by eastern white pines, and there is one that looks pretty old growing in a rock crevice. its in a perfect spot to collect, and has a very nice trunk. its a medium sized tree (about 15 in.), but has good movement and a thick trunk (about 3 in.) it looks like a nice little tree, still pretty flexible and could be made into something nice. i was about to collect it last year so i read about them online to look for any tips for collecting and growing them, all i heard was that they were pretty bad for use as bonsai. this made me decide to wait to try it. everyone said that they rarely bud-back, have very long internodes and the needles do not reduce. there also seems to be problems with the bark ageing slowly. i will probably collect it over the next year, just take it slow and hope it turns out alright.

so basically what im asking is has anyone had any experience with them? do any of you have any tips for needle reducing, or getting it to grow more compact?  it should be similar to all five needles, but i just want to check if it really will be worth it in the end. thanks, mike.
 

MatsuBonsai

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Re: eastern white pine, are they really as bad as everyone says?
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2011, 09:17 PM »
I think you've certainly got the right idea and attitude towards giving it a shot.  I have no experience with eastern white pine for bonsai, but have heard the same as you.  There's a nursery grafter here that uses them as understock for Japanese 5-needle, so if nothing else you could always try grafting.

I say go for it, if you have permission to collect it, of course.  I would love to see your progress documented.
 

bwaynef

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Re: eastern white pine, are they really as bad as everyone says?
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2011, 09:56 PM »
Lindsay Farr demonstrates grafting JWP foliage onto a decent P. strobus trunk in one of his videos.
 

Don Blackmond

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Re: eastern white pine, are they really as bad as everyone says?
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2011, 08:41 AM »
here is a photo of Jim Doyle's eastern white pine on display at the Midwest Bonsai Show in 2010.
http://bonsaistudygroup.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=787.0;attach=6823;image
 

bwaynef

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Re: eastern white pine, are they really as bad as everyone says?
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2011, 10:04 AM »
Here's an au naturale EWP @ the NC Arboretum's permanent collection.  The user AJ here may have more information.
 

rockm

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Re: eastern white pine, are they really as bad as everyone says?
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2011, 03:04 PM »
In collecting ANY tree for bonsai, it usually comes down to "is it worth the trouble?" That usually means if the first three feet of a wild grown tree is nice or even remarkable, it can be a candidate regardless of species quirks. If you dig the pine, is the trunk and resulting final image going to be good enough to ignore the long internodes, smooth bark, etc.?

In short--If the plant has movement in the lower third of the trunk, has some decent trunk girth and rougher mature looking plated bark, go for it...
 

mc4mc44

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Re: eastern white pine, are they really as bad as everyone says?
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2011, 05:55 PM »
thanks a lot you guys, those trees are great. matsubonsai, you can expect a pic of the tree as soon as its collected and as long as everything goes well. thanks again everybody, mike.
 

Treebeard55

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Re: eastern white pine, are they really as bad as everyone says?
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2011, 11:05 PM »
I also shied away from Pinus strobus, until I was pulled up short by Jim Doyle's splendid bunjin at the Mid-America. Now I'm reconsidering.

Good picture, Don. I think your pic turned out a little better than mine.  :D
 

Alain Bertrand

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Re: eastern white pine, are they really as bad as everyone says?
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2011, 11:35 AM »
the needles do not reduce.
A few months ago, in a French and Spanish bonsai magazine, there was an article translated from Japanese (probably published first in bonsai sekai) which showed total defoliation of JBP to get shorter needles. Why not give a try with some trees before collecting any ?
 

mc4mc44

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Re: eastern white pine, are they really as bad as everyone says?
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2011, 01:01 PM »

A few months ago, in a French and Spanish bonsai magazine, there was an article translated from Japanese (probably published first in bonsai sekai) which showed total defoliation of JBP to get shorter needles. Why not give a try with some trees before collecting any ?

i could never do that, if i killed the tree i would never forgive myself. and i searched "defoliation on japanese black pine" on google and nothing came up. do you have any link to an article like it online?
 

Alain Bertrand

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Re: eastern white pine, are they really as bad as everyone says?
« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2011, 02:33 PM »
If uploading here small pictures scanned from the magazine (fair use, I think)  could be accepted, I would do it.
Any way, I am going to try this year with a few P. pinaster whose needles are really to long and don't reduce well. If it worked, it would open me many collecting possibilities.
 

John Kirby

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Re: eastern white pine, are they really as bad as everyone says?
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2011, 11:37 PM »
I wouldm't totally defoliate a JBP, but taking strong trees down to 3 pairs of needles will make the long, long, needles shorten very quicky.
 

meushi

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Re: eastern white pine, are they really as bad as everyone says?
« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2011, 12:05 AM »
I have read the article in question, it is downright scary looking but seems to work for that specific person in that specific Japanese climate. He seems to be the only person doing it over there but I think a lot of French amateurs (based on the discussions on PB) will try it this year. There were a few comments saying that a few professionals in France already do something similar with local pines, with great success in their climate.
 

Buffrider

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Re: eastern white pine, are they really as bad as everyone says?
« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2011, 03:45 PM »
I have one of these lying around that I bought when I first got into bonsai and was told that they suck as bonsai so I'd like to see some more on this.
 

Alain Bertrand

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Re: eastern white pine, are they really as bad as everyone says?
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2011, 03:00 AM »
Quote
I have read the article in question, it is downright scary looking but seems to work for that specific person in that specific Japanese climate
I have tried this. It did reduce the needles for about one half. No too bad.
As for an online article, there is one here.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2011, 03:03 AM by Alain Bertrand »