Bonsai Study Group Forum

Species Specific => White Pine Bonsai Discussion => Topic started by: GBHunter on August 05, 2014, 09:14 PM

Title: A point of inquiry
Post by: GBHunter on August 05, 2014, 09:14 PM
Just out of curiosity should I purchase a white pine? A nice one from Brent , I would really like to try my luck on these trees. I am keeping my small trees but they are going to be left somewhat alone for a while so that they thicken up. I will also be able to get a growing bed going this year so I am exited...but more on the topic which white pine should I get? I do live in Michigan so the cold is a concern.
Title: Re: A point of inquiry
Post by: M. Frary on August 05, 2014, 09:27 PM
  Down where you live cold shouldn't be much of a concern for a white pine. They don't mind a little cold weather.
Title: Re: A point of inquiry
Post by: bwaynef on August 05, 2014, 09:39 PM
Just out of curiosity should I purchase a white pine?

If I'm spending someone else's money, I'm going to recommend a purchase every time.

Do others in your area/climate have JWP that thrive?
Title: Re: A point of inquiry
Post by: GBHunter on August 06, 2014, 12:49 AM
I do not know many people in this area, I was informed by many sources including Boon to stay away from the local bonsai club. But the nurseries here stated the pine should be fine if protected from wind and extreme cold.
Title: Re: A point of inquiry
Post by: Herman on August 06, 2014, 08:17 AM
Hi GB,

you are in zone5B, it will be fine in your area :)

kind regards
Herman
Title: Re: A point of inquiry
Post by: Don Blackmond on August 06, 2014, 11:45 AM
you should not have any trouble with jwp where you are at.  they thrive here.
Title: Re: A point of inquiry
Post by: M. Frary on August 06, 2014, 09:22 PM
I do not know many people in this area, I was informed by many sources including Boon to stay away from the local bonsai club. But the nurseries here stated the pine should be fine if protected from wind and extreme cold.

 I'm thinking of joining a bonsai club somewhere in Michigan if I can find a good one. Which one should I stay away from?
Title: Re: A point of inquiry
Post by: Sorce on August 07, 2014, 04:33 AM
Sounds like a new club is forming. It has 3 members currently.

The only question is, where and when you are going to get together?

Your adventure begins at Michigan.org. lol
We have those billboards all over!


Sorce
Title: Re: A point of inquiry
Post by: M. Frary on August 07, 2014, 11:52 AM
  Here it's called Pure Michigan.
Title: Re: A point of inquiry
Post by: Leo in NE Illinois on August 08, 2014, 10:13 PM
One caveat about JWP. They are quite hardy, and can take zone 4 winters no problem on their own roots, except, they don't like being too wet in winter. If you winter them outdoors, keep them sheltered from getting a lot of snow or rain during the winter thaws. They want to dry out a little (but not completely bone dry) between waterings.

Most named cultivars of JWP from southern nurseries are grafted on JBP. JBP roots are fine, supply good vigor, but they are at best a zone 5 hardy, so you shouldn't leave a JWP on JBP rootstock exposed to sub-zero F temperatures. These should get some winter protection from extreme cold.

Wayne Jope of Riverbend Bonsai grafts some of his named JWP cultivars to P. strobus. The beauty of this is that as understock, P. strobus will survive extreme cold no problem and does fine even with a long spell of saturated wet weather. Once the graft union is totally healed a graft on P. strobus should be able to endure zone 4 winters with no protection from temperature, though they will benefit from protection from wind and winter sun.

So if you pick up named cultivar grafted JWP, knowing the rootstock can guide you to how much protection to give in winter. Actually regardless the species of the root stock, you should protect grafted trees from extreme cold until the graft is totally  fused with the scion, from my (dearly learned, a fatal mistake or two)  experience, at least 5 to 10 years after the graft was made. But once a graft is a decade old, the species of understock will determine how much cold the JWP can take.

I winter my P. strobus for the last 2 decades simply by setting them on the ground, in the shade, out of the wind. I'm in zone 5, and even after the winter of 2013-2014 my P. strobus pulled through fine. So if you are shopping, look for grafts on to P. strobus if cold tolerance is a priority. Otherwise assume JBP was used as understock and protect as one would a JBP.

Just my 3 cents.
Title: Re: A point of inquiry
Post by: GBHunter on August 15, 2014, 12:57 AM
This is more of a direct question for people inMichigan. What nurseries sell JWP? None but one of the local ones have it. The "bonsai" place here has them at horrific prices given what you get. The have one tree that is marked at 599$ and more than 50% of the tree is completely dead, plus the soil stinks like rot. These are the guys that took my Arailla tree (it was awful , my first atempt at anything), and sold it for 55$ I got it for 6$. Anyway anyone  know any nurseries?
Title: Re: A point of inquiry
Post by: Sorce on August 15, 2014, 07:11 AM
You can wait till a show comes around with some good vendors.

Or get something put on the Wagon from Oregon. ( must see from Oregon) post

Anyone know how that went?

Sorce
Title: Re: A point of inquiry
Post by: Brian Van Fleet on August 15, 2014, 08:04 AM
MABA is this weekend at the Chicago Botanic Gardens.  Lots of vendors will be there.
Title: Re: A point of inquiry
Post by: augustine on August 15, 2014, 09:43 AM
I would definitely buy a JWP... from Don Blackmond. Don has an excellent reputation in the bonsai business.
Title: Re: A point of inquiry
Post by: Chrisl on August 15, 2014, 09:57 AM
You can wait till a show comes around with some good vendors.

Or get something put on the Wagon from Oregon. ( must see from Oregon) post

Anyone know how that went?

Sorce

I received several trees this yr on the Wagon Sorce.  Ryan drove it out this yr, and actually arrived earlier than planned.  I'll be bringing to Chicago more yamadori each yr if plans go accordingly. 
Title: Re: A point of inquiry
Post by: M. Frary on August 16, 2014, 12:51 AM
  I see JWP all over in Michigan at nurseries. I haven't bought one yet but I will when I see the right one. All that I see are grafted trees.
Title: Re: A point of inquiry
Post by: Sorce on August 16, 2014, 04:40 AM
You can wait till a show comes around with some good vendors.

Or get something put on the Wagon from Oregon. ( must see from Oregon) post

Anyone know how that went?

Sorce

I received several trees this yr on the Wagon Sorce.  Ryan drove it out this yr, and actually arrived earlier than planned.  I'll be bringing to Chicago more yamadori each yr if plans go accordingly. 

Awesome! Thanks!
Title: Re: A point of inquiry
Post by: Leo in NE Illinois on August 22, 2014, 11:26 AM
This is more of a direct question for people inMichigan. What nurseries sell JWP? None but one of the local ones have it. The "bonsai" place here has them at horrific prices given what you get. The have one tree that is marked at 599$ and more than 50% of the tree is completely dead, plus the soil stinks like rot. These are the guys that took my Arailla tree (it was awful , my first atempt at anything), and sold it for 55$ I got it for 6$. Anyway anyone  know any nurseries?

If you are in the eastern half of Michigan, you should plan on making the drive to Rochester, NY to see the national show in 4 weeks. Sept 13 & 14. Many vendors will be selling JWP.

A great source for JWP via mail order, Riverbend has both seedling JWP and grafted named varieties of JWP. Some of Wayne's grafts are on P. strobus, some are on JBP, just ask. Riverbend also has 3 and 6 year old JWP seedlings on their own roots at very modest prices.  http://riverbendgardens.com/shop/ (http://riverbendgardens.com/shop/)

If you want to do walk in and pick out or pick up, here are a couple MI places.

Don Blackmond - Gregory Beach MI - http://www.gregorybeachbonsai.com/index.html (http://www.gregorybeachbonsai.com/index.html)

Cold Stream Farm - Manistee - Traverse City area - a tree nursery not bonsai orientated, but good bare root stock for spring. Right now no JWP but they do have Bristlecone Pine, American Red Pine & Jack Pine, both are very hardy. Jack Pine & Red Pine (P.resinosa) are native to MI and fully hardy there. http://www.coldstreamfarm.net/default.aspx (http://www.coldstreamfarm.net/default.aspx)

Another tree nursery (not bonsai orientated) also in Traverse City area - I have not purchased from them yet but they have a wide selection of bare root and potted stock http://porkyfarm.com/default1.asp (http://porkyfarm.com/default1.asp)

Kaede Misho is in a suburb of Detroit if you are on that end of the state - http://shop.kaedemisho.com (http://shop.kaedemisho.com) I have not purchased from them, so I know nothing about them. Looks like they are worth checking out.

You can trust Riverbend and Evergreen Gardenworks for mail order - they are fine small nurseries focused on bonsai with excellent reputations. Evergreen - http://www.evergreengardenworks.com/ (http://www.evergreengardenworks.com/)

Hope that helps, the list may not be everybody, but it is a start.
Title: Re: A point of inquiry
Post by: GBHunter on September 20, 2014, 07:24 PM
Wonderful thank you!