Bonsai Study Group Forum

Species Specific => Trident Maple Bonsai Discussion => Topic started by: bwaynef on December 08, 2013, 10:29 PM

Title: Trident Maple Project Tree
Post by: bwaynef on December 08, 2013, 10:29 PM
It has been too long since I got some new (good) material.  I saved my Christmas money from last year and decided earlier this year that I was going to make this one part of my collection.  I brought it home the Saturday before Thanksgiving ...and have NOT had a chance to do much with it other than take it out of the car.  I'll follow up as time/updates allow/require.  I've got a plan, but I'd love to know if other folks see the same thing I do.  Thoughts?
Title: Re:
Post by: Joshua Hanzman on December 09, 2013, 08:25 AM
Oohh, i love this game, i would definitely be working on the taper above the first curve. Depending on how the tree looked and what i chose as my front i would be debating chopping down to one of the major branches above the first curve, possibly leaving the left branch and working with that. Or, i would make the left trunk (2nd pic)a branch and work the taper on the right trunk? How'd i do? Close to your plans, probably not since I'm stuck in the second dimension :/

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Title: Re: Trident Maple Project Tree
Post by: Jay on December 09, 2013, 05:12 PM
For my two cents.... And realizing it isn't my tree.... I would use the lowest branch as the tree. Develop from there.
I might think of air layering off the top...but.... Don't know if I would want to lose the year of development on the primary tree.
Nice material.... Wise investment
Again my two cents
Jay
Title: Re: Trident Maple Project Tree
Post by: Dave Murphy on December 09, 2013, 06:02 PM
As Jay pointed out, making this into a sumo is an option.  Personally, I'd keep the main trunk, though, along with the first main branch, and style as an informal upright.  I believe pic one has the best nebari, so that would be my front.  The main trunk lacks taper in the upper 40-50%, do I'd cut it back and grow out a new leader.  Nice material, Wayne.
Title: Re: Trident Maple Project Tree
Post by: Sorce on December 12, 2013, 05:49 PM
Nice. That second thin branch could be a new leader too.

I did not know the Invisible Man was a potter!  ;)
Title: Re: Trident Maple Project Tree
Post by: Judy on December 12, 2013, 06:59 PM
Probably controversial, what I would do... There are a lot of old beech and oak trees around here that stand out to me every time I see them with their singular appearance.  The thing they have in common is a very strong branch in the tree. Most of the time they go outward from the trunk and have some very nice twists or strong curves.  Not always the lowest branch either, but that branch really makes those old trees for me. 
I would keep the low branch and use it as a branch, not a secondary trunk.  I have a couple trees that I could photograph for an example if I get time...
I really like the wrinkles below that branch on the second pic too.
I have been looking for a project tree to do this strong branch idea with now for a bit.
Title: Re: Trident Maple Project Tree
Post by: bwaynef on February 01, 2014, 04:03 PM
Thanks for your feedback.  Several of you have hit on what I'm intending (and alluded to in another thread weeks ago I believe).  I want to airlayer off the tall trunk, leaving the first branch to build a near-sumo-but-maybe-taller tree.

Judy, while I've all but decided that's the direction I'm heading, I would love to see some pictures of what you're talking about.  I remember the first time a sashi-eda (sashi-no-eda?) branch finally made sense to me when I was looking at a tree in nature.  I haven't ever seen it in deciduous material though.

Now for some advice:  I want desperately to go ahead and repot this tree.  Would it be unwise to repot and airlayer during the same season?  If you were to do both in one season, how would you go about it?

Thanks again all!
Title: Re: Trident Maple Project Tree
Post by: Judy on February 01, 2014, 06:45 PM
I've got just the tree for you to look at then,  I have to take my camera and get a photo, been meaning to anyway.  It's pretty amazing.  Soon as I get a chance.
Title: Re: Trident Maple Project Tree
Post by: bwaynef on February 06, 2014, 11:29 AM
Now for some advice:  I want desperately to go ahead and repot this tree.  Would it be unwise to repot and airlayer during the same season?  If you were to do both in one season, how would you go about it?

Unless someone speaks up in the next few days telling me this is unwise, I believe I'm going to go ahead and repot it and try to airlayer it this year.  I might back off depending how extensive the repotting goes.  Once its leafed out, I'll judge its growth and reassess how sane it is to try to airlayer.
Title: Re: Trident Maple Project Tree
Post by: Don Blackmond on February 06, 2014, 02:51 PM
Now for some advice:  I want desperately to go ahead and repot this tree.  Would it be unwise to repot and airlayer during the same season?  If you were to do both in one season, how would you go about it?

Unless someone speaks up in the next few days telling me this is unwise, I believe I'm going to go ahead and repot it and try to airlayer it this year.  I might back off depending how extensive the repotting goes.  Once its leafed out, I'll judge its growth and reassess how sane it is to try to airlayer.

You can do that without too much concern.  Its basically a deciduous weed.  ;D
Also, I would not judge the decision to airlayer on growth after repotting, because repotting will stimulate a rush of new growth.
Title: Re: Trident Maple Project Tree
Post by: Gaffer on February 06, 2014, 06:41 PM
I agree with don.i find it is way easier to make your layer cuts when your tree is bear rooted and you can lay it down on your table. Better cut. Keep roots covered with wet towl and away you go. I would also do the same with a Japanese maple. Works for me.
Qualicum Brian
Title: Re: Trident Maple Project Tree
Post by: bwaynef on February 28, 2014, 10:27 AM
Step 1:
Title: Re: Trident Maple Project Tree
Post by: bwaynef on August 06, 2014, 03:52 PM
I haven't had much success airlayering this one.  Initially I cut the bark and placed the sphagnum and wrapped it in plastic.  The plastic was held in place by firmly wrapping wire around both ends (top & bottom).  I never saw roots so I broke it open and saw it was building callous material.  Reapplied hormone and fresh/new sphagnum.  I tried to make sure the wrap was sealed tighter this time as the moss seemed to be holding/catching too much water.  Lather. Rinse. Repeat.  This time, when I reapplied the moss, I did it in a pot that was secured to the trunk with Lava, Akadama, and Pumice in equal portions around the moss.  My thinking is that this will wick away some of that moisture in the moss.

I'm not seeing anything that makes me hopeful there are new roots in this attempt.  Am I right to believe that if this thing were throwing roots that the top would be going crazy as well?
Title: Re: Trident Maple Project Tree
Post by: coh on August 06, 2014, 04:25 PM
I'm not seeing anything that makes me hopeful there are new roots in this attempt.  Am I right to believe that if this thing were throwing roots that the top would be going crazy as well?
Not necessarily. I've got a layer going on a Japanese maple that hasn't shown any new top growth for about a month now, but I checked today and it's got some nice root growth going. Similarly, last year I layered a couple of Chinese quinces, they also rooted strongly without showing any change in top growth.

Chris
Title: Re: Trident Maple Project Tree
Post by: Sorce on August 07, 2014, 05:10 AM
Pics or it didnt happen,! Lol

Or the invisible man also does airlayers?

Take a peek!

Sorce
Title: Re: Trident Maple Project Tree
Post by: bwaynef on August 20, 2014, 09:48 AM
This one's been pretty frustrating to try to airlayer.  I checked it and redid the layer 2 (or was it 3) times now.  I'll protect this one over the winter, and if by May-ish of next year I don't see evidence of roots, that section's going to come off.
Title: Re: Trident Maple Project Tree
Post by: Judy on August 20, 2014, 10:13 AM
I'm wondering what section you are working on layering?  I hope it's not that low branch, I still love the first image of the tree in this thread...
Title: Re: Trident Maple Project Tree
Post by: coh on August 20, 2014, 12:35 PM
In my experience, some plants just seem reluctant to layer, even different members of the same species.

I don't recall whether I wrote this here or on another forum, but last year I attempted to layer 3 different chinese quinces. I used the same method and did them the same day. Two plants (both potted) layered quickly and are doing well on their own roots. The other plant (in the ground) produced extensive callous tissue on each of 2 layer attempts, but neither produced roots. I have placed 2 new layers on that plant this summer and the same thing is happening. Meanwhile, a Japanese maple that I placed a layer on the same day (also potted), is throwing plentiful new roots.

This has me wondering if perhaps the extra vigor of the in ground plant somehow makes the layering less successful, perhaps by causing excessive callous formation instead of roots. Obviously my sample size is too small to draw conclusions, but overall I've had a much lower success rate with layering attempts on plants that are in the ground versus potted plants. Anyone else have similar experience?

Chris
Title: Re: Trident Maple Project Tree
Post by: bwaynef on August 20, 2014, 01:16 PM
I'm wondering what section you are working on layering?  I hope it's not that low branch, I still love the first image of the tree in this thread...

Everything above that low branch is what I'm trying to airlayer.
Title: Re: Trident Maple Project Tree
Post by: Sorce on August 21, 2014, 02:54 PM
I like where the bottom one can go.!

Top too.

Hope it takes.

Or root the cutting in spring!