Bonsai Study Group Forum

Species Specific => Trident Maple Bonsai Discussion => Topic started by: BonsaiEngineer1493 on August 21, 2014, 10:17 PM

Title: Trident #2
Post by: BonsaiEngineer1493 on August 21, 2014, 10:17 PM
Hey everyone,

First off I would like to thank Don! I always wanted a well developed nebari so luckily I found one. I really look forward developing this trident. I will gladly keep you guys updated on the progress.

All the best,
Title: Re: Trident #2
Post by: Judy on August 22, 2014, 07:39 AM
Nice one Nick!  Packs a lot of character in a small package.  Branch development should be fun with this guy.
Can we get a size reference? 
Title: Re: Trident #2
Post by: BonsaiEngineer1493 on August 23, 2014, 06:10 PM
Here ya go Judy...
Title: Re: Trident #2
Post by: Judy on August 24, 2014, 07:25 AM
Never figured you for an Armani kind of guy!   
will be fun to work this one, I think.
Title: Re: Trident #2
Post by: Sorce on August 24, 2014, 07:27 AM
 :-\   No offense Nick ( or Don).

Please understand it is only because the cologne is so close at hand I feel it ok to virtually dump on your excitement of this nebari,  ;D  (not really dump, had to put that in there! This is more a "what did you see in it?" Question.)
and push it for more responses, I cant be the only one thinking this.

But, IMO, and this is only based on what one may call Japanese "standards".
It seems, overly, akwardly, oddly, and dare I say grotesquely ( too much WP!),
May be more fitting adjectives for this Nebari.  ???  (All of which make me like it.)

 (Here I am feeling Paul's anxiety)

It just seems almost a plate. ( thought that was more for JM.)
No visible division.
And, well.... SCARY!

Please remember I'm not to big on standards anyway. (Literati soul)
I have opened another page to really study this tree. STUDY!
And think it fun, if challenging, material.

Study results. Again, based on "standards".

Pic one. Nice wide base. But the "shoulders" are to similar.
Pic two. Visual weight of root base seems heavy under canopy. Seems it should be opposite the lean.
           Beginning ( by rotation)) of reverse taper more evident in....
Pic three. My favorite front. If it wasnt for that "collar" of reverse taper. It seems
            Perfect if you can fix that. Maybe a graft? The tree is really inviting you in to sit down on the Nebari here, but that friggin wire is in the way!
Pic four. The knob beginning to show kind of kills it for me. There may be a happy medium between 3-4, but the Millimeters turn can be easily undone in person!



Title: Re: Trident #2
Post by: Brian Van Fleet on August 24, 2014, 08:36 AM
I like it...lots of potential, and (for sorce) shows the grower's ability.  Sometimes exaggerated features are more a demonstration of the grower's skills than an homage to any tree in nature. 
Title: Re: Trident #2
Post by: BonsaiEngineer1493 on August 24, 2014, 09:47 AM
Judy, I was in a rush - getting ready to go to work - before I snapped the picture so it was in a grabbing distance, but you gotta love the scent Haha! I noticed everyone usually uses cans, but we are a bottled water family lol

Sorce, I watched and read Walter Pall's criticism before so I'm familiar with your reference to it being the "Japanese standard." Judy and Brian threw great points, which were " it packs a lot of character" and "show's the grower's ability" about this tree and those are the main reasons I decided to get it - to be frank. As for the rest, this tree is not finished,  but I think the hard part is out of the way.

Thanks everyone!
Title: Re: Trident #2
Post by: jlushious on August 24, 2014, 12:10 PM
I see where Sorce is coming from, but I think it just looks a bit strange because the nebari is out of proportion with the crown, a big thick base needs a nice spreading canopy to balance it out (maybe?). At least that's my thought, which I am sure will happen since the branching is still in early stages.
Title: Re: Trident #2
Post by: BonsaiEngineer1493 on August 24, 2014, 01:32 PM
I agree with you! As I previously mentioned it still has some way to go before it could be displayed as a show tree.
Judy mentioned on bonsainut, that I should consider a final height. I think choosing a final height and establishing an appropriate canopy will solve the proportion issue your talking about. THAnks jlushious
Title: Re: Trident #2
Post by: Sorce on August 24, 2014, 09:19 PM

 I kept thinking it is still young.

Proportion is definitely going to help.

It is still scary though!  ;)

And I do love it.

Good of you to be purchasing decent material. And from a great fella!

Title: Re: Trident #2
Post by: BonsaiEngineer1493 on September 24, 2014, 09:57 PM
Today, I was lucky enough to have someone to work with with me on the  tree. We got rid of a few bulging areas on the trunk, picked a front, and discussed the steps to take in the future. Enjoy the pics!
Title: Re: Trident #2
Post by: Judy on September 25, 2014, 09:33 AM
This looks good Nick.  Great little tree.
Title: Re: Trident #2
Post by: augustine on September 26, 2014, 09:47 AM
Beautiful tree Don and BonEng!
Title: Re: Trident #2
Post by: bwaynef on September 26, 2014, 10:58 AM
I really like the movement of the tree shown in the 2nd picture of the OP's last post.  The nebari is also impressive.  Its my opinion that it could be further refined to really make this tree a show-stopper though. 

As is, this tree is a novelty, with a grotesque nebari.  The nebari seems not in keeping with the nature of the rest of the tree.  The part that bothers me is that the edges of the nebari are bulbous rather than diminishing into the soil.  It reminds me of trees growing along streets where concrete has been poured to build sidewalks and the trees roots fill that space before beginning to push up at the edges.

Simply lowering the tree in the pot would go a long way toward helping.  I'm talking ΒΌ" or so.  Ideally, the nebari could be treated to ground layer at roughly that level and continue to enhance to a level not achieved by many in the states.

You didn't ask for it, you're not obligated to do anything with it, but there it is.

Again, I mean no disrespect to the current owner or any who's had a hand it in getting to where it is.  This tree is already very nice ...and I'd make room for it in short order!
Title: Re: Trident #2
Post by: Sorce on September 26, 2014, 02:37 PM
I second Bwayne. Very closely.

I follow your ground layer thought. A mass of surface roots almost directly on top of the current soil line. That would fill in relatively soon, maybe even sooner with a couple grafts if Eng could pull it off.

Would create a more femine look for the fine trunk movement in pic 2!

Thanks for the update.

I want you to make me eat my wicked thoughts of this tree!

So far so good!

Title: Re: Trident #2
Post by: BonsaiEngineer1493 on September 26, 2014, 10:44 PM
Thank you Sorce, bwaynef, augustine, and judy!

The second picture from the most recent post is the front. I will probably repot the tree in two years, but I'm not planning to fix the nebari that way -in reference to bwaynef's post. I will fix the nebari in the front by applying grafts. I will follow the same approach for the back of the tree as well. I will keep you guys updated when I'll do a bit more work during the fall/early winter.