Bonsai Study Group Forum

Species Specific => Trident Maple Bonsai Discussion => Topic started by: John Kirby on August 11, 2009, 10:44 PM

Title: Shohin Trident
Post by: John Kirby on August 11, 2009, 10:44 PM
Hi,
Below are pictures of a Shohin trident I have been working on. When I showed pictures to Boon about 18 months ago he said he liked the little tree, but that it would be better if I could let a sacrifice leader go to thicken the apex. So, last spring I did not defolae one branch near the top and let it grow for a year. Tridents grow pretty well here, so this is what it looks like now. It is shown defoliated, I will cut it soon and carve the scar to start the healing process and to continue the ramification process (there is a bit of pruning to do as well). Three years aor so and this will be a pretty cute little tree- and it can go back into an appropriately sized pot.

John
(the tree will be 61/2" tall, the leader is over 3')
Title: Re: Shohin Trident
Post by: Jeff Lahr on August 12, 2009, 12:12 AM
The tree with the unfettered apex reminds me of Pinocchio when his nose grew from telling lies. Is the second photo taken as a full frontal? I keep wanting to turn it about 30 degrees to the right.
Title: Re: Shohin Trident
Post by: John Kirby on August 12, 2009, 12:34 AM
Turning it works if you want to rebuild the main branches. I may have been 4 or 5 degrees off full center, give it a couple of years to develop.
Title: Re: Shohin Trident
Post by: MatsuBonsai on August 13, 2009, 08:59 PM
John,

Do you have the pot already for this?  Are you going with a "white" pot with this one?

("white" of course being the off white old patina pot)
Title: Re: Shohin Trident
Post by: Rick Moquin on August 13, 2009, 10:31 PM
The tree with the unfettered apex reminds me of Pinocchio when his nose grew from telling lies. Is the second photo taken as a full frontal? I keep wanting to turn it about 30 degrees to the right.
... ummmmmmmmm wondering where you are going with this??

Nice tree John!
Title: Re: Shohin Trident
Post by: John Kirby on August 13, 2009, 11:03 PM
Thanks Rick, the unfettered pinocchio growth has fixed the top. John
Title: Re: Shohin Trident
Post by: Rick Moquin on August 14, 2009, 08:09 AM
the unfettered pinocchio growth has fixed the top. John
I think you have me mixed up with Jeff. I knew why the leader was left to grow wild, nd yes it did a splendid job.
Title: Re: Shohin Trident
Post by: John Kirby on August 14, 2009, 08:14 AM
Hi Rick, understand.  I just included the top fixing statement so that casual readers who may scan their way in will understand why it was done. Cheers, John
Title: Re: Shohin Trident
Post by: bonsaikc on August 14, 2009, 09:55 AM
Great little tree, John. Thanks for sharing it!

Chris
Title: Re: Shohin Trident
Post by: Jerry Norbury on August 14, 2009, 04:00 PM
John

Will you chop the whole thing off or reduce it to 1/2 inch or what?

I have a similar problem...
Title: Re: Shohin Trident
Post by: John Kirby on August 14, 2009, 04:05 PM
i will cut i down to 1-2" next weekend then cut and carve in October. John
Title: Re: Shohin Trident
Post by: John Kirby on November 12, 2009, 07:40 PM
Hi,
Cut the long leader off in August, at Boon's suggestion cut it all the way down and cleaned it up with a knife. The tree has popped back really well, has had good bud back around the cut which is healing. The tree is really holding on to its leaves, tho I noticed that a few of the leaves on the back of the tree have started to turn red. Will see in a few weeks how it is really healing.

John
Title: Re: Shohin Trident
Post by: Jeff Lahr on November 12, 2009, 08:27 PM
Looks great. This tree has some great taper now, which is often lacking in shohin trees.
Title: Re: Shohin Trident
Post by: bonsaikc on November 13, 2009, 09:44 AM
John, awesome stuff. Can't wait to see it defoliated for fall!
Title: Re: Shohin Trident
Post by: Jerry Norbury on November 13, 2009, 02:56 PM
Couldn't be better. What pot will you eventually go for?
Title: Re: Shohin Trident
Post by: John Kirby on November 13, 2009, 06:30 PM
I'll post some pics, I have several from japan that I have piced up through a friend in California and my trip to Japan a few years ago.  All are small enough that the Nebari will come pretty close to the edge.

It needs wire and some directed pruning to get it nice and twiggy over the next few years.  John
Title: Re: Shohin Trident
Post by: bwaynef on November 13, 2009, 09:01 PM
I've overlayed red on a part of the trunk of this li'l trident that bothers me.  Is there any plan to correct the taper there?  Should I overlook it since this is a shohin?

I suspect that doing much to try to correct it would ruin other parts of the tree and may just not be worth it, but I figure I'd ask those more knowledgable than myself.

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Shohin Trident
Post by: John Kirby on November 13, 2009, 09:27 PM
I'll go throw it in the trash. Seriously, Wayne, you sometimes have to live with what you've got. There was a cutback of a large sacrifice branch that has healed over. You could cut it back to the line, let the top run and heal it, graft all new branches on. Or, you can work with what you have, which is why the top was grown up to improve taper.

John
Title: Re: Shohin Trident
Post by: JRob on November 13, 2009, 11:35 PM
John,

Throw it in the trash - just let me know when so I can go dumpster driving -  I'd be more than happy and proud to add it to my Shohin collection. Area in red does not bother me one bit. With continued ramification and development in will only improve and reach its full potential. Its a spectacular tree. I am anxious to see your pot choices when you have time to post them.

JRob
Title: Re: Shohin Trident
Post by: bwaynef on November 14, 2009, 07:26 AM
I'll go throw it in the trash. Seriously, Wayne, you sometimes have to live with what you've got. There was a cutback of a large sacrifice branch that has healed over. You could cut it back to the line, let the top run and heal it, graft all new branches on. Or, you can work with what you have, which is why the top was grown up to improve taper.

John

Hopefully I didn't strike a nerve.  I wasn't so much disparaging the tree as finding out what's acceptable within the allowances afforded shohin.  I probably should have mentioned in my previous post that I really like the tree.  Hopefully that wasn't said too late.
Title: Re: Shohin Trident
Post by: Jerry Norbury on November 14, 2009, 10:09 AM
Too late?

The man's in tears.

The tree's in the dumpster.
Title: Re: Shohin Trident
Post by: John Kirby on November 14, 2009, 01:45 PM
Wayne,
No, no nerve struck here. It is just one of the "faults" that one sees. If I can get the branch density up I don't think that it will be a problem. The biggest thing now, for me is getting the nebari to match the stubby little trunk.

John
Title: Re: Shohin Trident
Post by: Don Blackmond on November 15, 2009, 07:47 PM
Wayne,
No, no nerve struck here. It is just one of the "faults" that one sees. If I can get the branch density up I don't think that it will be a problem. The biggest thing now, for me is getting the nebari to match the stubby little trunk.

John

I like it, and I could live with it, despite its faults.  I bet there is a good nebari too.
Title: Re: Shohin Trident
Post by: John Kirby on November 15, 2009, 08:12 PM
Don,
I can't wait to look under the soil when repotting. It has filled in a good deal since you saw it last, we will see The larger shallow pot has allowed the roots to run pretty aggressively to the edges. May be one more repot then back in to the small pot.

Will see,

John
Title: Re: Shohin Trident
Post by: John Kirby on May 13, 2010, 10:08 PM
So, Don sent me some pics of shohin this winter, and I picked a few up. The little tree we were talking about here now has a new home with a friend, and it has been replaced with this little tree. Don sent a pic of it without leaves, here it is this past weekend as I was getting ready to reduce leaves, prune a little and wire. More later.
Title: Re: Shohin Trident
Post by: John Kirby on May 25, 2010, 05:41 PM
Here is the little tree without any leaves last winter.
Title: Re: Shohin Trident
Post by: JRob on August 27, 2010, 01:23 PM
John,

Any updated you'd care to share?

JRob
Title: Re: Shohin Trident
Post by: John Kirby on August 27, 2010, 04:19 PM
I worked on it in May and then again the end of June. I won't get to do anything with it again until November when I get out to Boon's again. I'll get some pictures then (or if I sneak out in October....)  John
Title: Re: Shohin Trident
Post by: John Kirby on November 25, 2010, 04:44 PM
After fall work, wire removed, leaves cleaned up, is continuing to develop in its training pot. John
Title: Re: Shohin Trident
Post by: Jerry Norbury on November 25, 2010, 05:00 PM
One hell of a tree. I am deeply impressed.
Title: Re: Shohin Trident
Post by: JRob on November 25, 2010, 06:41 PM
John,

Ditto

JRob
Title: Re: Shohin Trident
Post by: bwaynef on February 28, 2011, 01:27 PM
After fall work, wire removed, leaves cleaned up, is continuing to develop in its training pot. John

Is there any way to tell if any of those branches were (thread?) grafted into place?  The first left branch in particular.
Title: Re: Shohin Trident
Post by: John Kirby on February 28, 2011, 03:09 PM
Approach grafted.
Title: Re: Shohin Trident
Post by: John Kirby on February 15, 2014, 07:10 PM
Well, the first little tree came back to me following a trade. Have continued its development, repotted this week in to a little Shozan / Shouzan illustrated pot, with the Foxes Wedding Scene on it . The tree barely fits in this pot due to the widthe of the nebari.
Title: Re: Shohin Trident
Post by: augustine on February 15, 2014, 08:01 PM
John,

Beautiful and I love the container. Thanks for the update.

Augustine/Ray
Title: Re: Shohin Trident
Post by: Dan W. on February 15, 2014, 08:04 PM
Love them both! Thanks for the update.
Title: Re: Shohin Trident
Post by: Dan W. on February 15, 2014, 08:05 PM
I just recently bought a shohin trident from Don that also has a new apex growing out. I'm excited to see it through the process!
Title: Re: Shohin Trident
Post by: Jason E on February 15, 2014, 08:42 PM
Very nice, thanks for the update
Title: Re: Shohin Trident
Post by: bwaynef on February 15, 2014, 08:49 PM
What's the story on that pot?
Title: Re: Shohin Trident
Post by: JRob on February 16, 2014, 07:22 AM
John, Coming along nicely. I hope you enjoyed your time with Boon. JRob
Title: Re: Shohin Trident
Post by: Judy on February 16, 2014, 08:06 AM
Love that bark! Thanks for the photo, interesting pot...
Title: Re: Shohin Trident
Post by: Jay on February 16, 2014, 08:46 AM
NICE tree.....
must be a joy to view daily!
Jay
Title: Re: Shohin Trident
Post by: Don Blackmond on February 16, 2014, 09:27 AM
Well, the first little tree came back to me following a trade. Have continued its development, repotted this week in to a little Shozan / Shouzan illustrated pot, with the Foxes Wedding Scene on it . The tree barely fits in this pot due to the widthe of the nebari.

I'm happy to see this tree again, and glad you got it back.  Its looking good John.  I like the idea of tightening up the top half.  It will really look great once you develop your secondary and tertiary branching on the upper left.  Not bad for a garden center reject.
Title: Re: Shohin Trident
Post by: Minogame on February 16, 2014, 11:17 AM
What's the story on that pot?

I don't know the maker, but the picture is the Fox Wedding.

http://hyakumonogatari.com/2013/07/19/kitsune-no-yomeiri-the-fox-wedding/ (http://hyakumonogatari.com/2013/07/19/kitsune-no-yomeiri-the-fox-wedding/)

Nice
Title: Re: Shohin Trident
Post by: John Kirby on February 16, 2014, 11:22 AM
http://japanesebonsaipots.net/?s=Foxes+wedding&submit=Search. (http://japanesebonsaipots.net/?s=Foxes+wedding&submit=Search.) The potter is Shouzan (Joshu), who is a modern Japanese artist. Very nice detail and it doesn't have the extra zero or two a Yusen would cost. I got it from Boon after his last trip to Japan where he went to Shinkupuji Temple to visit Omura san.
Title: Re: Shohin Trident
Post by: Jason E on March 04, 2014, 09:09 PM
Hi John, was wondering if you adjust the amount of akadama in your soil mix for small shohin pots?

thanks, Jason
Title: Re: Shohin Trident
Post by: Adair M on June 07, 2014, 09:52 PM
A recent photo: