Author Topic: New Trident full of options  (Read 24529 times)

akeppler

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Re: New Trident full of options
« Reply #45 on: December 15, 2010, 08:25 PM »
This is the same tree but now it has branches and has been wired. I'm workin on making this double trunk. Time will tell.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2010, 08:30 PM by akeppler »
 

John Kirby

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Re: New Trident full of options
« Reply #46 on: December 15, 2010, 08:36 PM »
Al Super. Have you been grafting roots to improve the nebari?
 

akeppler

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Re: New Trident full of options
« Reply #47 on: December 15, 2010, 08:59 PM »
All my cuttings are grown up! 1/2 inch already so no, I don't have a scion stock...this year though I will take some and start in the fall on some other trees that need improving.
 

akeppler

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Re: New Trident full of options
« Reply #48 on: December 15, 2010, 09:12 PM »
Like this one.
 

John Kirby

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Re: New Trident full of options
« Reply #49 on: December 15, 2010, 09:18 PM »
That isone way, the other is just to take roots that you have pruned off, drill, and insert, with a toothpick or chopstick to hold in place...... like a ficus.
 

akeppler

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Re: New Trident full of options
« Reply #50 on: December 16, 2010, 12:31 AM »
Tell us more of this technique. I have never seen this. Is this like a one sided thread graft and do you have to skin the inserted root a little and make sure it touches the cambium? ( I mean, duhh, but I had to ask) This sounds super simple man! I take it that this is a technique that could be used on other easily grafted species like pyracantha, pomagranite and olive?
 

Dave Murphy

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Re: New Trident full of options
« Reply #51 on: December 16, 2010, 06:54 AM »
Great pics/discussion guys.  Al, you've inspired me to do a more radical chop on a trident I did a ground layer on last spring.  John, let's hear more about your root grafting technique...sounds way too easy, which I like.

Dave
 

bwaynef

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Re: New Trident full of options
« Reply #52 on: December 16, 2010, 11:30 AM »
While your chop is showing good progress it is not large enough to blend in well enough with the trunk to look powerful. It is not pyrimidal enough.

I'm not sure I follow.  What isn't large enough?  The branch growing off to the left above the chop (which I think you mentioned in a previous reply)?  If that's the case, I concur.  What you can't see is that branch growing tall enough that I could barely fit it into my SUV ....w/ severe bending/wrapping.  I left it long so that I could get as much growth/girth on that branch to allow me to chop it sooner.  I was thinking of using more of that branch than your chalked up picture shows, but I'm happy to follow your suggestions.


Quote
On your tree, I have made some lines indicateing where the fist branch needed to be grown to before making the second chop. This is needed for two reasons, one to help heal the first cut, and second, to smooth out the transition between trunk and extending trunk for directional change. extensinn of secondary should go untill the red lines are reached. Second chop at light blue line. Bud at top should be grown out till purple lines are reached. Third chop is made at yellow area. By the time you get to the second chop, you should have some buds around the edge of the chop area that can be chosen for branching. these should be chosen and wired for direction. By the time of the second chop, it may have taken two growing seasons for the first leader to get that big. Remember to keep all suckers and shoots that sprout from the base and let those grow long. Do not cut these all year. In the spring of the year you chop, remove the basel growth reserving a short stub along the trunk, about 1/4 inch or so. Seal these. Let them sprout that year and repeat that process while growing out the second chop. Repeat this process for three years or so untill the trunk is reaching the stage of looking gnarly, which it should with the stubs. The bark will heal over these quickly and add girth thru callous tissue.

That's precisely what I was hoping for, and way more than I was expecting.  Thanks Al for taking the time to ...essentially walk me thru this whole process.  Extremely informative, ...even moreso after Kirby 'splains more of that root grafting.

Thanks guys!
 

Hotaction

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Re: New Trident full of options
« Reply #53 on: December 18, 2010, 12:44 PM »
Tell us more of this technique. I have never seen this. Is this like a one sided thread graft and do you have to skin the inserted root a little and make sure it touches the cambium? ( I mean, duhh, but I had to ask) This sounds super simple man! I take it that this is a technique that could be used on other easily grafted species like pyracantha, pomagranite and olive?

Al, I think this should help clear up what John is talking about.  I imagine it is the same technique, seeing as it is coming from an SOB.

http://bonsaistudygroup.com/tropical-bonsai-discussion/ficus-nerifolia-rootwork/
 

akeppler

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Re: New Trident full of options
« Reply #54 on: December 18, 2010, 07:53 PM »
Compared to the amount of grafts shown just before potting and the shots of the roots exposed it does not seem many took. I wonder what the ratio was. How many inserted compared to how many took. If it was iffy on a ficus it may be impossible on a trident.
 

John Kirby

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Re: New Trident full of options
« Reply #55 on: December 19, 2010, 10:20 AM »
Actually, the best way to do it is with "approach" root grafts, I was hoping to do on today, but will ave to wait unil after Christmas. Al, you can wait a few days for some pictures......
 

akeppler

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Re: New Trident full of options
« Reply #56 on: December 19, 2010, 07:21 PM »
Damn....approach grafts I have done. This looked really easy and simple. Almost like making tanuki jins!
 

John Kirby

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Re: New Trident full of options
« Reply #57 on: December 21, 2010, 02:58 PM »
Al, the little cut off roots inserted into drilled holes, with a little scraping, jammed in with toothpicks/chopsticks below, dusted with rooting hormone, and then very generously covered with soil and sphagnum have a very high rate of taking. If you want near 100%, you need to approach graft.
 

garywood

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Re: New Trident full of options
« Reply #58 on: December 21, 2010, 04:44 PM »
Hey John,  I shouldn't speak for Al but I think he is thinking of approaching a seedling instead of an existing root that is doubled back and inserted.
I use that method also and I don't think the explanation was clear.
Wood
 

John Kirby

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Re: New Trident full of options
« Reply #59 on: December 21, 2010, 06:21 PM »
Wood,
Understand, why I just wanted to do it with photos.

John