Author Topic: New Trident full of options  (Read 24444 times)

bwaynef

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New Trident full of options
« on: July 28, 2009, 08:21 PM »
Below are 4 pictures of a new Trident.  If the canopy was a little fuller it would look good in a pot during summer.  Anyway, I'll see where discussion leads before I go much further.
 

Dano

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Re: New Trident full of options
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2009, 09:20 PM »
Wayne,
I have a very similar trident. I really like the markings on the bark of your tree. It really gives the apearance of age with the lichen. Have you considered to start pulling some of the larger limbs down. It will open the tree up more and begin the training of the lower branches. I decided not to use wire on my tree but rather tie downs. I then let the limbs grow long for a couple of years and thicken. You have a nice tree.

Dan
 

Rick Moquin

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Re: New Trident full of options
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2009, 10:01 PM »
Pretty much my line of thinking as well, as the primaries seem to be in the right position.
 

bwaynef

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Re: New Trident full of options
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2009, 08:48 AM »
Wayne,
I have a very similar trident. I really like the markings on the bark of your tree. It really gives the apearance of age with the lichen. Have you considered to start pulling some of the larger limbs down.

That's exactly what I intend to do.  I got this one yesterday @ about 3 so all I've had time to do was to take the pictures you see.  Its in my truck now, so if its not raining at lunch I'll be able to do that work then.

My only question is how to deal w/ the branch where it meets the trunk.  Looking at some huge maples and oaks around here, the low branches come off perpendicular to the trunk ...w/ no discernible upward movement.  When I bend this tree's branches down, there is a gentle rise before it levels off.

I figure I need to deal with this now or forever wish I'd gotten it right to begin with (and then not have the heart to lose the branch).  Should I notch the branch?  Top or bottom?  Is there a technique I'm missing?  If i allow unrestrained growth of those branches will the additional growth help to alleviate the appearance that the branch rises before it levels out (like how you have to exaggerate bends when you're styling whips)?
 

rockm

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Re: New Trident full of options
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2009, 09:28 AM »
You cannot pull those lower branches down enough to be convincing in that position with wire. Notching them won't really give them any better appearance.

The junction of the first branches and trunk are important visually to establish the mood of the tree. If you wire the current branches downward, they will be "rainbow" arcs for the most part and will look strange on such a great aged-looking trunk.

I'd hard prune or remove them next spring and wait for new shoots in those locations and manipulate them into a downward angle from the get-go. Since tridents have no trouble at all in pushing alot of new shoots at pruning sites, you won't have to wait long.
 

andy graham

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Re: New Trident full of options
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2009, 09:39 AM »
Nice tree Wayne! I'm with rockm on this. I'd prune every branch back hard(within a centimeter or two) of the trunk and start from there. It sounds drastic but my understanding of tridents is that they're not far behind Ficus(real trees) in growth rate and back budding.

Andy
 

Billkcmo

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Re: New Trident full of options
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2009, 10:48 AM »
Great tree.  It has a future.  If it were my tree I would start by wiring every branch down and keep  the secondary branches on the sides  primary branches.  Nice thing about a trident is you can remove all the branches and it will grow new ones.  Takes a long time to redevelope it after you do.  It is easier  for me to do than say.  LOL   Nice one Wayne
 

JTGJr25

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Re: New Trident full of options
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2009, 12:18 PM »
In addition to whats been said I would also choose an upper branch to be the new apex.  This will add the little bit of taper that the tree needs.


Tom
 

johng

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Re: New Trident full of options
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2009, 01:36 PM »
Waynes Trident

All that said I have a couple Tridents I should have cut down years ago:)

Respectfully,
John
 

JTGJr25

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Re: New Trident full of options
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2009, 01:51 PM »
I agree with john, I didn't want to be the only one to say it but now that it's been said...

So in that first pic, if it were mine, i would cut it back to that first branch on the right and regrow the top.  Let the new leader grow and thicken up then chop again and keep doing so until you reach the desired effect.  I would think that you should have the trunk finished in the next two growing seasons as long as its healthy. 

Also, if you don't want to throw away the top you can always layer it but this would set back your time frame.


Tom
 

noissee

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Re: New Trident full of options
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2009, 02:52 PM »
I think I would definitely layer it instead of just tossing away the top. It looks fairly thick, and as you know you can start out the layered tree with really great nebari. Unless you just have a bunch of this size tree waiting around in the ground for you to work on, I would regret not trying to get another tree out of it.
 

bwaynef

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Re: New Trident full of options
« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2009, 03:46 PM »
You cannot pull those lower branches down enough to be convincing in that position with wire. Notching them won't really give them any better appearance.

Mark, thanks for your take on it.  I guess I knew what you (generally, not specifically ...though it *IS* to be expected from you) were going to tell me those branches would always be bent and it would never really look the way I wanted it to.  And to chop it back hard.  I have a few questions about the angles that low branches should come off the trunk on old maples ...but I'll get to that when I have time to take some pictures of some trees around me.  Again, thanks for your honesty.  (Rereading it sounds like I'm being smart***-ish.  Not my intent.  I will probably end up doing what you suggest.)

All that said I have a couple Tridents I should have cut down years ago:)

John, I appreciate you taking the time to put this video together.  Sounds like you have a very pleasant work area w/ a bird singing in the background and everything (or is it one of those annoying audobon clocks?).  Just because I have this new piece of stock doesn't mean that I like it the way it is.  I'm not attached to it so I'm certainly open to suggestions/discussion.  Are you suggesting, if I choose to chop it, that I chop to allow the 1st branch on the right to form the rest of the trunk/apex?

...I didn't want to be the only one to say it but now that it's been said...
I purposefully didn't say much about the tree because I wanted to see what others would say.  Discuss.  Don't hold back.  Please be civil (and I have no reason to suspect YOU wouldn't be), but I posted this one for discussion.


I think I would definitely layer it instead of just tossing away the top. It looks fairly thick, and as you know you can start out the layered tree with really great nebari. Unless you just have a bunch of this size tree waiting around in the ground for you to work on, I would regret not trying to get another tree out of it.

I'm torn about that, but in the end I'll only be set back 6 months.  The lure of having another tree isn't as enticing as having a really nice tree.  Again though, its only 6 months (if I hurry).

 

johng

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Re: New Trident full of options
« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2009, 03:52 PM »
Hey Wayne...  without seeing the tree in person it is difficult to say which branch I would use.  I have complete confidence that you can make a good choice.
John
 

bonsaikc

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Re: New Trident full of options
« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2009, 04:06 PM »
Wayne, with a trident, there is no necessity to even leave a branch. When you chop the trunk to a bare stump, you will have new buds pop all over the remaining trunk. If you air layer (I had good success in the past with cutting a groove and driving in a large wire or a deep carving will work too), it should sprout below the layer in the same way.

If you chop it, I'd still try to root the piece you chopped off, as it is a shame to give it up so easily.

Also: If you chop it, leave some extra length and chop it straight across. The tree will provide plenty of buds to choose from, but somehow if you chop at an angle, it will bud at the low end of the cut and not at the top, necessitating another chop later on.

Good luck and I look forward to seeing what you do with this one.

Chris
 

noissee

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Re: New Trident full of options
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2009, 07:50 PM »
I'm torn about that, but in the end I'll only be set back 6 months.  The lure of having another tree isn't as enticing as having a really nice tree.  Again though, its only 6 months (if I hurry).


I can definitely identify with that feeling. I wouldn't hold it against if you went ahead and chunked it.  8)