Author Topic: Hankurei  (Read 8003 times)

Owen Reich

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Re: Hankurei
« Reply #15 on: December 18, 2014, 02:12 PM »
To clarify, I don't know if pulling buds increases ramification.  I am not an authority on Satsuki.  I mentioned a few that I think are most knowledgeable with Joe Harris being IMO the man.  Just from working on his satsuki in the past and their health and form.  I felt it would be nice to comment to share my experiences. 

In Japan, your teacher is by default "right"  ;D.  My teacher doesn't mess with satsuki; likely from childhood memories of a bonsai garden full of them.  I would like to hear Boon's opinion as satsuki grow pretty fast out West on the bud removal question.

I will say that I have personally repotted and Defoliated (90%) younger satsuki bonsai just after flowering and branches popped basically everywhere.  I was told that less than say 75% defoliation will not initiate a new flush.  Did it to about 15 of them of many different cultivars.

 

0soyoung

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Re: Hankurei
« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2014, 02:23 PM »
Flowers are just apical meristems that made the transistion from a vegitative to floral one. We know, in general, that branching is initiated by removal of the apical meristem. So, why wouldn't removing buds, regardless of their type, induce branching?
 

John Lee

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Re: Hankurei
« Reply #17 on: December 18, 2014, 03:54 PM »
I did not mean to say or insinuate that that cutting ends or removing buds would not cause growth.  I was leaning toward the idea that removing the buds will save energy (and cause more growth than unsual) or not removing them weakens the plant somehow.  I allow mine to bloom and they still bud like crazy when the time comes.  I do attempt to remove the ova and spent flowers.

John
 

0soyoung

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Re: Hankurei
« Reply #18 on: December 18, 2014, 06:09 PM »
I was speaking more to Owens' statement "I don't know if pulling buds increases ramification" than anything else.

But, I am with you regarding the flowers (maybe my inference is incorrect) - why else bother with azaleas?

While I follow the logic that Owen is espousing, I am not convinced that it is correct. I usually deadhead just because the plant looks nicer. I don't see any ill or deleterious effects when I don't. I just prefer the appearance of the plant without the ovaries. In the end it just seems to me that if we don't prune (vegetative and/or floral) meristems, the plant/tree gets lankier with a more diffuse canopy which we tend to view as less healthy. If we do prune the plant stays more compact with denser foliage which we tend to view as more healthy.

Pruning the apical meristem from any plant/tree requires it to use real energy (by metabolism of sugars) to produce new meristems before profitable growth can happen. The real energy invested in just making the meristem may well be the majority of enegy around it. Leafs/flowers emerge mostly by simple inflation of cells that already exist utilizing ozmosis. I am not certain, but I think relatively little metabolizm happens afterward. If I'm correct (not at all certain) then all this arguing about removing flower bud to 'save energy' is moot.


Having said that, I've lost track of whether it has any relevance to this thread  ???
« Last Edit: December 18, 2014, 06:11 PM by 0soyoung »
 

Leo in NE Illinois

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Re: Hankurei
« Reply #19 on: December 19, 2014, 02:20 PM »
Thanks Owen, John Lee, Osoyoung, Adair, & Kent. All opinions are welcome.

This summer I had a couple azaleas in a blend of perlite & kanuma, topped with sphagnum to hold this light mix in the pot. These test plants gave me the best growth of the season. So I am re-thinking my complaints regarding Kanuma (and Akadama by extension). Sourcing at reasonable cost has been my biggest complaint, I just need to work on sourcing to get the harder version of kanuma.

Teleperion Farms is "pretty good" at keeping varieties labelled correctly, the Waka ebisu was labelled as such on receipt. Just because it is tall and thin - a design choice I made - doesn't mean it is not correctly labelled. I will keep photographing the flowers over the years, because each year the flowers have a different "look", some years pale, some more intensely colored, with different marking patterns, and flower form changes, some look double (hose in hose) some look single. It has a nice range of variation in blooms.

I'm still learning, azaleas as of yet are not growing as well as some of my other trees. Potting media, watering, and fertilizing make all the difference in the world, and I need to adjust what I do to make these more optimal for azalea. I really appreciate the help being offered. Thanks.
 

SHIMA1

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Re: Hankurei
« Reply #20 on: December 19, 2014, 08:03 PM »



A fellow club member studied in Japan for a while and assisted in the care of many azaleas, he said that they were never instructed to remove the buds, other that removing a select few for aestetics.






John

Would this be Russell Coker?
 

John Lee

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Re: Hankurei
« Reply #21 on: December 19, 2014, 10:25 PM »
Sham, yes it is, do you know him?  He is a super guy and a wealth of knowledge on bonsai and plants.  He has assisted me some of my trees, particularly azaleas.

John
 

SHIMA1

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Re: Hankurei
« Reply #22 on: December 20, 2014, 02:49 AM »
I only know him from many years on ibc. I  always remember him saying this.