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Author Topic: Short Ponderosa--possible JBP graft candidate  (Read 3366 times)
pwk5017
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« on: July 17, 2013, 08:23 PM »

Here is my smallest ponderosa. Collected in 2010 and purchased for like $60 I think. The tree has been in a smaller 1 gallon nursery can for the last few years, and its vigor has never compared to the other ponderosas I have from the same year. I put it in this 10" pond basket this spring and cleaned the rest of the mountain soil off its root mass.  I would estimate it is 90%+/- free of mountain soil. The tree has responded well to its new home.  Lots of roots poking through the pond basket mesh. This tree has me sort of stumped. I feel like the needles will never ever be short enough for this tree. The tree is 12" from the soil to the crown branches. Add on another 5" if you want to measure to the tip of the highest needle. The trunk is about 3.5" at the soil level. I like the trunk line, and there is actually decent branch ramification for a collected ponderosa. Still, if this tree is ever going to become something in my eyes, I think it will require a foliage change. The shorter needle of the JBP will fit the tree's height better, and grafting will allow me to cut back on the legginess of the branches. I play around with the tree occasionally tilting it about waiting for a design to pop in my mind. It has a few constraints, namely the one branch that vertically splits off the main trunk. In the birds eye view of the canopy, you can see this branch sticking out by itself. I am not sure how much I can bend it back into the tree. I included two possible designs I see for the tree once its grafted.

As for the grafting, does anyone have a history of success grafting JBP onto ponderosas? I was planning on doing multiple approach grafts using some 2 year old seedlings I have. Possibly splitting the whole project into 2 phases spread out over two years.  I have always wondered "what if..." after seeing so many awesome trunked ponderosas with squiggly needles. This tree should be a good learning experience.

Patrick
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pwk5017
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« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2013, 08:26 PM »

virt one is pretty straight forward informal upright. My only issue with this design is 90% of the tree is leaning away from you behind the trunk. Virt 2 is a semi cascade rotating the planting angle 20-30 degrees. I think the tree really lends itself to this design. It takes advantage of the nice branching the tree has, and the one constraining branch wont require a ton of bending to bring it down as part of the apex. Also, the one back branch could add some nice depth to the composition.
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Dirk
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« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2013, 03:13 AM »

Hi,

I like your virts. Especially the second. It comes close to the tree as it is now.
Micheal Hagedorn has done a lot of grafting on ponderosa and write about it in his blog.

Dirk
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pwk5017
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« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2013, 07:26 AM »

Thanks. Yeah, I was considering emailing him to receive some advice. I know he has a few, but I dont think he has a blog post that specifically covers the grafting process.  Most do scion grafts, but I feel more confident doing approach grafts. I feel like my success will be better.
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Potawatomi13
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« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2015, 08:47 AM »

Personally if you want a black pine get a black pine and if you're not really happy with a ponderosa as a ponderosa then let someone have it that appreciates them for their own beauty.  I feel that grafting anything else on this great native tree is an abominable thing to do.
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shimsuki
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« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2015, 04:29 PM »

Personally if you want a black pine get a black pine and if you're not really happy with a ponderosa as a ponderosa then let someone have it that appreciates them for their own beauty.  I feel that grafting anything else on this great native tree is an abominable thing to do.


Don't let your love for this species cloud your judgement about wheter grafting JBP is a bad idea or not. It makes a lot of sense to graft JBP onto Shohin ponderosas, you get the great bark and trunk thickness of the collected tree combined with the short needles of the black pine. The large ponderosa needles tend to not work well on Shohin because they destroy the illusion of scale. Also some people don't have the time or money to grow or purchase a nice Shohin black pine. I'm not saying that grafting is what I would do, but it is a logical solution here that shouldn't be considered abominable. Grafting is done all the time in this art form.

Here is Mike's posts that relate to this thread.

http://crataegus.com/2010/03/29/grafting-on-ponderosa/

http://crataegus.com/2011/04/25/black-pine-grafted-ponderosa-styled/

PS- the Japanese tend to hate ponderosa foliage (not that that should entirely matter to us, but just something to note)

Andrew

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Potawatomi13
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« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2015, 03:18 AM »

While Black pines have different bark they still have their own beauty which should also be respected for it's own sake.  Collected Ponderosas are likely older than our grandparents and possibly several more generations and turning them into a Frankensteins monster tree shows a complete lack of respect for something beautiful that only God can create.  Are we showing humility and respect by destroying such a wonderful and old living thing?  Yes destroying.  Every species of tree that is a genuine from the mountain tree deserves the greatest respect and humility in the way I treat it and it grieves me that many others do not feel this way.
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