Author Topic: Repotting of Ponderosa Pine  (Read 9056 times)

Zolljer

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Re: Repotting of Ponderosa Pine
« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2012, 11:55 PM »
I have not heard this information before, but it might be helpful, as I am hoping to collect a ponderosa Pine soon. Are ponderosas not as dependent on mycorrhizae for their well-being as other pines are?  Until now it was my understanding that bare-rooting Pines is detrimental to their development.  Is this not the case with ponderosa?
 

John Kirby

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Re: Repotting of Ponderosa Pine
« Reply #16 on: March 28, 2012, 07:48 AM »
"Barerooting" is risky on all conifers, however the danger of leaving significant amounts of mountain duff are also great. the eaiest time to remove the majority of duff is after collection. As has been stated in this thread, the goal is not to get the roots clean, jut get the majority of the rotting material off before it goes in to the pot. If you have a tree with a weak root system then you can leave it alone for a year, then if it has grown, remove the tree from the pot and clean 1/3 to 1/2 of the roots  back to their origin at the tree base.  Ponderosa pines also need Mycorhizae, however they will be able to reestablish themselves from spores/fungi left on the roots during the light cleaning. The key is not so much to place the tree in shade, the key is to place the tree in a protected area where it will avoid intense hot sun, have elevated humidity levels and will be protected from strong winds to prevent the tree from drying out. Hope this helps.
 

Treebeard55

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Re: Repotting of Ponderosa Pine
« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2012, 11:02 PM »
Brian, are you finding that the available sunlight is an issue in Indianapolis? I'm referring to the fact that Indy is at a much lower elevation than the ponderosas' native range, and Indiana has more cloudy days. Have you noticed anything?
 

Brian Brandley

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Re: Repotting of Ponderosa Pine
« Reply #18 on: April 02, 2012, 08:17 AM »
This is my first year with bonsai in Indy, so I'll have to let you know later.  My first impression is that this was a highly unusual winter/spring.  Might as well have been in northern California!  My Ponderosa's and lodgepole pines are pushing candles nicely.  I'll be curious to see how they handle the humid summers - more of a concern for me than anything an Indiana winter could throw at them.

I did notice one thing - a lodgepole pine I had given my mother a few years back is very yellow but otherwise appears healthy.  She had planted it in her garden and it behaved as if it were still in a pot.  None of the aggressive growth that I would have expected from it in the ground after 4 yrs.  None of the rest of her plants showed any signs of chlorosis.  I dug it up earlier this spring and have it in a pot now giving it extra iron and ferts.

Brian
 

John Kirby

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Re: Repotting of Ponderosa Pine
« Reply #19 on: April 02, 2012, 10:07 AM »
Brian, I have one word for you: Fungicide. You may want to see what kind of rotation the commercial folks are using.
 

Chrisl

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Re: Repotting of Ponderosa Pine
« Reply #20 on: April 02, 2012, 10:24 AM »
John, is now a good time to start preventative fungal infections on our conifers? 
 

Treebeard55

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Re: Repotting of Ponderosa Pine
« Reply #21 on: April 03, 2012, 09:22 AM »
John, thanks for reminding us all to avoid high-pressure water or other rough measures.

I got a "Burlap Bonanza" tree from Andy in 2010, and potted it up with much of the native soil still in place; I took off only what came off quite easily. This spring I brushed away the potting mix above the original rootball, and found that the native soil had loosened considerably. I was able to wash away a good deal more of it without depotting the tree.

That's my (present) compromise between getting rid of the old soil immediately, and not touching the old soil for the first 3 years. Feedback on the approach is welcome, 'cuz I'm still figuring out the best approach for my climate and conditions!  ???
 

Chrisl

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Re: Repotting of Ponderosa Pine
« Reply #22 on: April 03, 2012, 10:23 AM »
Good for you Steve!  Got any pictures?

Unfortunately, my PP I got from Andy last summer is pretty much dead.  I did all that I could to keep it alive.  No evidence of any disease at all.  And it was healthy last fall even.  Very heart breaking to watch.  Andy is going to replace the tree, so that's really generous of him and speaks great of his character.  But I feel I lost a whole year, basically of getting the tree established.  Now I'm a bit shy of buying a yamadori that was just collected in the same year of purchase.  The tree I bought from Walter Pall, collected in '09 or '10, is very healthy, pushing candles and even new back buds.  What a difference.
 

John Kirby

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Re: Repotting of Ponderosa Pine
« Reply #23 on: April 03, 2012, 12:40 PM »
I use systemic when they start growing, lime sulfur over the winter (didn't do it this year as trees were outside until late).

Repotting Ponderosas is an interesting topic. I will guarantee this- fail to repot your ponderosas out of the gunk they come from the mountains in, and you live in warm humid place (even just summers) and you will have a tree planted in a septic mess before you know it. The trees grow in the mountains in a mix of granite dust and rotting pine needles and junk (duff). It is dry most of the time (either frozen or drought) and is wet for only short, generally cool, times. There is a faction of folks out there who don't repot or ever work their trees roots, especially collected trees, they will say "leave them alone, never touch the roots", they will also tend to have trees spontaneously die from time to time, after just being a little "peaked" or slow growing.

The best way I have found to kill collected trees is to collect them, pot them up, and then throw them in to a vehicle and drive them somewhere that year. Doesn't always work, but does from time to time. I would rather do the bareroot bonanza, repot the tree at home, and then not move it for a year or two so that it can get its roots well established and hardened off.

 
 

Chrisl

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Re: Repotting of Ponderosa Pine
« Reply #24 on: April 03, 2012, 01:16 PM »
That's good to hear John on the bareroot bonanza because that's what one choice Andy said I could have but wasn't sure about it.
Thanks for the information!
 

oakandwalnut

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Re: Repotting of Ponderosa Pine
« Reply #25 on: April 03, 2012, 01:19 PM »
Can someone please explain what Bareroot Bonanza is?
 

John Kirby

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Re: Repotting of Ponderosa Pine
« Reply #26 on: April 03, 2012, 02:23 PM »
O&W,
Andy Smith (Goldenarrowbonsai.com) digs, scores that roots and ships freshly collected Ponderosa Pines. He tends to only ship trees with really good root systems, it is your responsibility to clean em up, secure them in the pot and take care of them. Nice medium sized trees that don't get rattled around after you repot them. John
 

Treebeard55

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Re: Repotting of Ponderosa Pine
« Reply #27 on: April 04, 2012, 01:25 AM »
Good for you Steve!  Got any pictures?
...

Chris, I snapped a couple on Tuesday afternoon. Please ignore the state of the rack in the first picture: rebuilding it is high on my to-do list!

We're expecting a freeze Thursday nite; Friday the ponderosa will go back up to the deck, which is less sheltered than the side yard but gets a heckuva lot more sun.
 

Chrisl

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Re: Repotting of Ponderosa Pine
« Reply #28 on: April 04, 2012, 07:38 AM »
Great Steve!  Nice and healthy and even two bud sites on that one pic....very good!  Did you see the crappy roots of mine that I dug out of the box last night?  Pretty sad.  So you took two yrs. to get all the old soil off?  Lucky you it's thriving! 
When are you going to give it it's first styling?
 

Treebeard55

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Re: Repotting of Ponderosa Pine
« Reply #29 on: April 04, 2012, 09:32 AM »
Thanks, Chris. Actually, there are 4 buds opening on that branchlet, tho 2 of them are fairly hidden. But yes, the tree seems to be to be quite healthy, for which I'm thankful.

Yes, I saw your other thread: that's too bad! Losing such a fine tree is always a real bummer.

As for first styling -- well, I've been trying to make sure I don't rush with this tree. (A few of you will be thinking, "He's finally learning."  ;) ) But Andy Smith is coming to Ft. Wayne in June for a B.Y.O.T. workshop, and I'm thinking that may be a good opportunity. Still weighing pros and cons at this point.