Author Topic: Ponderosa Pine  (Read 5716 times)

T-Town Bonsai

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Ponderosa Pine
« on: September 16, 2009, 09:34 AM »
Here is a ponderosa that I got from Larry Jackle in 06.  Marco styled it in 07 I repotted it in 08.  I was taking care of business when he styled it, he didn't mark the front and I still haven't decided what he had planned for the front.  I cut the old needles a month or so ago as it was getting rather bushy.  It's a nice old tree and maybe I will keep it. 
 

John Kirby

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Re: Ponderosa Pine
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2009, 09:45 AM »
Hi Frank,
Looks like it is enjoying the move.

John
 

mcpesq817

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Re: Ponderosa Pine
« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2009, 09:47 AM »
Nice tree - whets my appetite for the Larry Jackel ponderosa workshop I'm signed up for with my local club in October.

Ponderosas can be a bit addictive - I've got one from Larry from last fall, and another two I picked up from Oregon Bonsai this spring.  ;D
 

T-Town Bonsai

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Re: Ponderosa Pine
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2009, 09:49 AM »
John,
They are all looking good.  Glad I asked you about needle work.  It was a mess before.
Now I need to know about the Scotch pines.
Frank
 

T-Town Bonsai

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Re: Ponderosa Pine
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2009, 09:51 AM »
Nice tree - whets my appetite for the Larry Jackel ponderosa workshop I'm signed up for with my local club in October.

Ponderosas can be a bit addictive - I've got one from Larry from last fall, and another two I picked up from Oregon Bonsai this spring.  ;D

I know what you mean.  On my last trip to Larry's I picked up 4 sold 2 and got another from Oregon Bonsai. 
 

mcpesq817

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Re: Ponderosa Pine
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2009, 10:04 AM »
I know what you mean.  On my last trip to Larry's I picked up 4 sold 2 and got another from Oregon Bonsai. 

Ah, maybe I need to take a trip to Colorado!  ;D

I noticed you styled the year after acquiring the tree, and then repotted the year after that.  Just out of curiousity, have you noticed any difference in vigor in the tree since repotting?  And how much of the native soil did you remove in the repot?

I ask because there seems to be a difference in opinion as to when to repot after collection - some say wait a few years, other say it's best to get the tree out of the native soil as quickly as possible.  On the one I got from Larry last fall, I took the approach of repotting this spring, removing a good majority, if not 75% of the native soil, and did not style it.  It seems to be doing pretty well right now.  Of the two I got from Oregon Bonsai this spring, one came mostly barerooted, so all I really had to do was put it in a pot.  The other was growing a bit weaker, so O.B. sent it in its original nursery can (it seems to be growing strongly now, so I'll likely repot next spring).

 

John Kirby

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Re: Ponderosa Pine
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2009, 02:57 PM »
Have you bought Larry Jackel's book? There is a good deal of insight there. In my conversations with Andy Smith, I have come to the conclusion that how you handle the tree can be dependent on what the weather was like in the mountains before the year before the tree was collected. If there was snow, some rain and a good deal of moisture- get it barerooted (at least 1/2) and out of the muck, if it was extended drought, dry and no snow- let it sit in the pot for a while. I repot all of mine the winter after I get them, unless they are from ANdy he has cleaned the roots following collection.

I have never lost a Ponderosa after repotting it (and getting rid of the duff/muck). I lost a large Ponderosa last year before I could repot it, it had significant root rot and was imbedded in duff as I expected it to be, it had been collected in 2006.


John
 

mcpesq817

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Re: Ponderosa Pine
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2009, 04:18 PM »
Hi John, I was hoping you would chime in.  I actually do have Larry's book, which I think is excellent, if only for the regional care guides at the end.  I could be wrong, but I think I remember that some of the contributors suggested leaving the tree alone a few years after collection, which was a bit of a discrepancy from those who suggest removing the tree from native soil as soon as practicable.

That's interesting about the weather affecting the timing on repotting.  I guess that is something to ask the collector.

That native soil/muck is pretty nasty stuff.  On the Ponderosa I got from Larry last fall, it took me a few hours to carefully remove the muck without damaging the old roots.  I was a bit worried because no matter how careful I was, a number of the fragile white tips had broken off.  So far the tree is looking strong though, so I think I'm out of the woods on that one. 

Thanks very much for the response.
 

John Kirby

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Re: Ponderosa Pine
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2009, 06:24 PM »
You live in a generally warm humid area. The reason Andy started cleaning his roots at collection, in nondrought years, is that the trees would essentially sit in the muck, become anoxic and die in places like St Louis, Memphis and Washington D.C. If I lived in the rockies, I would most likely let them sit awhile, dry climate, frozen most of the winter, etc.

One point from your post, I don't try to get every bit of gunk off of the roots. I don't hose mine off, I use a bucket of water to help, or on really big ones the hose without a high pressure nozzle. I also work to get the tree back in the inorganic mix as quickly as possible.

You can decide. Good luck.

 

mcpesq817

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Re: Ponderosa Pine
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2009, 06:44 PM »
Thanks very much for your thoughts John.

After seeing the muck when repotting, I was glad I decided to repot right away.  With the rain we got this year and the high humidity, I think I would have had problems.   I'll have to take another look at the regional care section and see if the difference in repotting times arises with differences in climate.  I ended up mostly using a chopstick to work the muck out.  Didn't use any water, except to the extent I was continually spraying the roots with a spray bottle to keep them moist.  Took forever, but the tree seems to be doing well now, so I think it worked out.  Given the success on my first tree, I'll repot the new ponderosa I get from Larry next month in the spring. 

Otherwise I've been following your and Walter's tips, and so far so good.  New needles on all three of my ponderosas are in the 4"+ range (old needles were closer to 1-2") and a nice green color, and the branches are getting nice buds at the ends.  Exciting stuff.

Thanks again John.  Frank, sorry I didn't mean to hijack your thread :D
 

shimsuki

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Re: Ponderosa Pine
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2009, 08:28 PM »
Frank, I like this ponderosa. Do you plan on leaving it in that pot?
Shimsuki

One more thing, it is weird because when I look down towards the pot the tree is planted to far to the left for my taste. However, when you look at the top, it appears to look correct, again according to my taste.
I have noticed people like Andy Smith planting their ponderosas very close to the edge of the pot they are in, I wonder why.
 

John Kirby

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Re: Ponderosa Pine
« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2009, 08:39 PM »
Shimsuki,
They are plantd next to the edge because he have long large roots when they are dug out of cracks, and sometimes they only have one big root and are very difficult to get anchored in the pot- the most important first step. It can take several years to reduce the root enough to get it in the center of the pot. John
 

shimsuki

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Re: Ponderosa Pine
« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2009, 08:42 PM »
I see now.
Thanks
 

T-Town Bonsai

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Re: Ponderosa Pine
« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2009, 09:31 PM »
Shimsuki,
They are plantd next to the edge because he have long large roots when they are dug out of cracks, and sometimes they only have one big root and are very difficult to get anchored in the pot- the most important first step. It can take several years to reduce the root enough to get it in the center of the pot. John

John's answered it well.  This one had one large root and I barely got it in this pot and didn't get the angle I wanted either.  I have a couple I have planted in bonsai pots for the first time and it is the same thing. 
Frank
 

greerhw

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Re: Ponderosa Pine
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2009, 09:07 PM »
When are you going to jin it, Paco. Want me to come uo help........................ ;)

keep it green,
Harry