Author Topic: Ponderosa Needle Color  (Read 4022 times)

oakandwalnut

  • Legit New User
  • *
  • Posts: 39
Ponderosa Needle Color
« on: May 03, 2012, 11:10 PM »
Hello all,
My ponderosa's needles are a dullish gray. Not the nice vibrant green that my JBPs are. My tree is an Andy Smith tree and was collected 4/11. It is in its original pot. I have been using a low strength organic granular fertilizer and Dyna-gro approx once a week. It is pushing candles. I am not concerned about needle length at this point. Any thoughts or suggestions about the needle colour?
« Last Edit: May 03, 2012, 11:26 PM by oakandwalnut »
 

Walter_Pall

  • Legit New User
  • *
  • Posts: 47
Re: Ponderosa Needle Color
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2012, 12:46 AM »
Add magnesium and iron to your feed and don't use low-strength, but high-strength. I use five (!!) times the suggested volume of liquid fertilizer every ten days. Use fertilizer that has lots of nitrogen.My ponderosas look very much like a black pine. Water every day, but only if you have very well draining substrate. Full sun is also a requirement.  Ignore what they tell you.
 

John Kirby

  • Hero Forum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2216
  • Thanked: 16 times
  • I really need an opposable thumb...
Re: Ponderosa Needle Color
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2012, 08:05 AM »
When we lived in a climate where Ponderosas would grow from early March to early November, I started fertilizing them in July, with the JWP, now that I live in a cooler climate, shorter growing season, I have started in April. I have taken Walter's advice on feeding and watering, in the climates I have lived in with relatively high humidity and overhead watering, I. Have just had to watch and control unglazed conditions associated with the needles. Coarse, rapidly draining soil, feed and water. There are a couple of ways to shorten the needles on PP, don't feed them while the needles elongate and/get the buds so dense that they shorten themselves.
 

oakandwalnut

  • Legit New User
  • *
  • Posts: 39
Re: Ponderosa Needle Color
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2012, 10:58 AM »
Thanks Guys!
Quick question: what is a good brand name fertilizer that has magnesium and Iron? I am using Dyna gro now, which does have mag and iron, but it sounds like maybe I need something with more of these things?
 

Chrisl

  • Hero Forum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 897
Re: Ponderosa Needle Color
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2012, 11:30 AM »
Wow Walter!  5X the normal dosage?  That IS aggressive feeding!   :D  I've only been using the recommended dose of my fish emulsion/seaweed feed every 10 dys.  Plus org. cakes and Osmocote.  Do you think I should still up my dosage strength?  John, do you use this amount of ferts?

OakandWalnut, you need to buy a bottle of micro nutrients.  Any hydro store will carry diff. brands to choose from. 
 

John Kirby

  • Hero Forum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2216
  • Thanked: 16 times
  • I really need an opposable thumb...
Re: Ponderosa Needle Color
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2012, 12:52 PM »
I use blood meal.
 

cbobgo

  • Full Forum Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 182
  • Thanked: 2 times
Re: Ponderosa Needle Color
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2012, 03:23 PM »
Just to be clear Walter, you said 5x the volume not 5x the concentration, correct?  I'm assuming you are catching the extra that flows out the bottom of the pot?  Otherwise that would seem to be alot of fert going to wast.

- bob
 

Walter_Pall

  • Legit New User
  • *
  • Posts: 47
Re: Ponderosa Needle Color
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2012, 12:55 AM »
I said 5 times a cap in to on gallon of water when the advise is to use one cap. and then I first water all trees thoroughly with pure water and then water them again with the liquid fertilizer. So the fertilizer does not go through the substrate immediately.
Sounds scary, like incredible over fertilizing? Well, come to my garden and see for yourself.
I can only tell you what I do. I am not telling you what you should do.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2012, 01:11 AM by Walter_Pall »
 

kostas

  • Legit New User
  • *
  • Posts: 38
Re: Ponderosa Needle Color
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2012, 10:45 AM »
hi. if someone use some part of organic soil in to the mix, do you think its OK if overfeed the plants or he kill them.
what you should do in that case?
 

Chrisl

  • Hero Forum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 897
Re: Ponderosa Needle Color
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2012, 12:19 PM »
Well I fed twice the normal strength yesterday and plan to gradually incr. to 5x.  Thanks Walter
 

Walter_Pall

  • Legit New User
  • *
  • Posts: 47
Re: Ponderosa Needle Color
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2012, 12:35 PM »
Never ever add organic soil to modern substrate. You are ruining the properites totally. Already a small percentag can cause great harm. With such a mixture you will have to go back to the old bonsai school where watering and feeding wer a science.

Chris, that's how I started. God luck.
 

kostas

  • Legit New User
  • *
  • Posts: 38
Re: Ponderosa Needle Color
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2012, 02:24 PM »
i hope you have a nice memory's in your beginning (i am sour that you have), never mind i live in Greece, here we have already 30c with dry winds and at the summer 45c in shade, with dry wind and one rain per month, so i water the tree that  in 100% inorganic  twice a day already (think about the summer) and its olives, that is forgivable with dry  conditions. for me, i  must  have something in my soil mix that gives good levels of humidity in the soil mix or else i must water all day long. if you ever came for holidays in greece you understand.
 so i must go back to the old bonsai scool.
 

coh

  • Full Forum Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 152
  • Thanked: 4 times
Re: Ponderosa Needle Color
« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2012, 02:38 PM »
Walter,

Just wanted to get some clarification on the point you made (below). My recollection is that you add a relatively small amount (up to 20%?) of "rough peat" to your substrate (and you've also mentioned bark on your blog). Are you still doing this? While this is not "soil" as we usually think of it, it is an organic component, albeit a rough/larger sized one.

Just trying to clear up some potential confusion...thanks!

Chris

Never ever add organic soil to modern substrate. You are ruining the properites totally. Already a small percentag can cause great harm. With such a mixture you will have to go back to the old bonsai school where watering and feeding wer a science.

Chris, that's how I started. God luck.
 

Walter_Pall

  • Legit New User
  • *
  • Posts: 47
Re: Ponderosa Needle Color
« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2012, 03:54 PM »
Chris,

indeed rough peat is organic. But it is a special kind of organic matter that takes many years to decompose. In case you don't get rough peat  you could also use hacked small bark particles. They have a similar property of not decomposing soon. Peat holds water and adds humid acid and apparently some other matters which are good for the  a living soil. As a consequence you don't have to water as frequently and your trees like it. So only after several years peat or bark becomes soil. Then it's high time to repot.
If you take plain soil you are ruining the modern substrate and have serious problems with watering and feeding as we had with the obsolete soil system.

I am kind of tired to repeat all this over and over again. There are several articles floating around which say it all exactly.
 

Chrisl

  • Hero Forum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 897
Re: Ponderosa Needle Color
« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2012, 11:26 AM »
Thanks Walter, glad I'm going about it correctly.  But I've been using a fish emulsion/seaweed fertilizer.  I can't afford the stuff if I use 5X the normal strength.   I'm pretty sure either I read where you said, or at Jim's place last Dec. that you use plain old chemical fertilizer.  I'm going to follow your lead and start using something like Miracle Gro or something along those lines as soon as I finish my fish fertilizer.  (I'll prob. start low again and work up as I don't know how much difference there is in strength between organic ferts vs. chem. ferts.)  Besides, I'm already using org. cakes.