Bonsai Study Group Forum

Species Specific => Ponderosa Pine Bonsai Discussion => Topic started by: jferrier on April 15, 2013, 02:39 PM

Title: pine id- Ponderosa?
Post by: jferrier on April 15, 2013, 02:39 PM
I live in Western Washington and don't have much experience with identification of the native pine types, but I've collected what I thought were 3 Ponderosa pines. I've noticed that their needles seem shorter and more green than other ponderosa images I've seen. I've thought maybe the brilliant green coloring was because of the climate here with the abundant rainfall, but then I remembered that I collected these fairly close to an area that has been grown as an experimental forest starting in 1912. I found that they had experimented with exotic species to see if anything was more productive for timber than the native douglas fir. Now I wondering if these aren't  something else possibly seeded from those imports. They are two-needled trees and here are some pics of them.
Title: Re: pine id- Ponderosa?
Post by: MatsuBonsai on April 15, 2013, 09:53 PM
Doesn't look like ponderosa to me. Maybe shore pine?

http://www.wnps.org/photogallery_evergreen_trees.html (http://www.wnps.org/photogallery_evergreen_trees.html)
Title: Re: pine id- Ponderosa?
Post by: jferrier on April 15, 2013, 11:11 PM
Well I've got a shore pine I bought from a nursery to compare to, so I'm fairly certain they are not shore pines. The needles are almost identical to my Japanese Black pine actually. The only other native species I'm aware of is Western white pine, but I'm sure it's not one of those. I'm not sure which imported pines have been grown nearby except scotch pine. 
Title: Re: pine id- Ponderosa?
Post by: John Kirby on April 16, 2013, 08:10 AM
It looks weak. Have you tried Pinus resinosa? Red Pine.
Title: Re: pine id- Ponderosa?
Post by: jferrier on April 16, 2013, 11:24 AM
Looks weak? Why? The die back is a result of growing near a dirt road and being lopped down by machinery when the road is maintained.
I've not tried p. resinosa.  It's not native to where I live.
Title: Re: pine id- Ponderosa?
Post by: John Kirby on April 16, 2013, 12:44 PM
It is a two needle pine that is often used in reforestation projects. I thought the goal was to figure out what it is?
Title: Re: pine id- Ponderosa?
Post by: thomas tynan on April 16, 2013, 10:44 PM
It is hard to tell but it looks like Pinus Contorta or Lodgepole Pine and yes the needles can look a little sickly meaning they can have a slightly yellow cast to them at times. I am guessing Pinus Contorta because the needles look like they twist which is characteristic of Lodgepole Pine. It is consider very good material for bonsai - but you need to look for good trunks. The tree you have collected might make a good shohin or smaller tree and if you can find one there are more out there. Good luck. Tom
Title: Re: pine id- Ponderosa?
Post by: John Kirby on April 17, 2013, 08:05 PM
Pinus contorta = lodgepole pine;
Pinus contorta= Shore Pine;
Lodgepole pine = Shore Pine;

They are regional/geographic/habitat variants of the same species. Not to say thst in another thousand generations or so they might mot become separate species, assuming gene flow is halted, leading to genetic isolation and loss of common genetics.