Bonsai Study Group Forum

Species Specific => Ponderosa Pine Bonsai Discussion => Topic started by: John Kirby on September 22, 2009, 07:27 PM

Title: Another Ponderosa Pine
Post by: John Kirby on September 22, 2009, 07:27 PM
Was home for day before heading out to Thailand, pulled this Ponderosa that I had gotten from Andy Smith 3 years ago, he had barerooted it after collection, I killed off the long straight branch and then worked to increase foliage density and get it to bud back.

OK here are front and back shots and the next frame shows the work that was done. One thing i know i need to work on this winter is getting a spot set up for photography, got to get the light and the depth of field worked out, back to the books.

Anyway, needle reduction followed by big bend and initial branch placement. I will shorten up the deadwood when I have an Idea as to how far back I can push the foliage on the lower branches. And no, I did not want this tree to be a cascade.

John
Title: Re: Another Ponderosa Pine
Post by: mcpesq817 on September 23, 2009, 05:26 PM
Cool looking tree John.  Nice work on getting the foliage density increased and for it to bud back.  I like where you're going with the styling.
Title: Re: Another Ponderosa Pine
Post by: King Kong on September 23, 2009, 06:04 PM
Come on John, you can do better than that! That  looks like a jousting stick at a Sir Lancelot's yard sale. Now express yourself.

__gary
Title: Re: Another Ponderosa Pine
Post by: John Kirby on September 24, 2009, 02:38 AM
When I take the long Jin off I will mail it to you and you can do with it what you will.

John
Title: Re: Another Ponderosa Pine
Post by: King Kong on September 24, 2009, 07:20 AM
I have to admit, design work and decisions can be frustrating, but in the long run, the process usually brings the best out out of a situation, well, in most cases. In some cases it can get ugly. Now John, if Kamura suggested the same would you have told him to put the gin where the sun don't shine?  I don't think so but maybe I am wrong again. You Okies are hard to predict.   

__gary
Title: Re: Another Ponderosa Pine
Post by: John Kirby on September 24, 2009, 04:48 PM
If some joker named Mr/Ms Kamura, suggested an impossible solution for the tree I might have politely said "OK" and done nothing. If Mr. Kimura of bonsai fame had said it, I think I would have said "OK" and done nothing. I never suggested what you should do with the jin (it will come off, just haven't decided how short yet), I anticipated that you would go out jousting with it. You Cubans can be difficult to understand (I live as far from Oklahoma as you do from Cuba, and have never lived in Oklahoma).

John
Title: Re: Another Ponderosa Pine
Post by: T-Town Bonsai on September 24, 2009, 07:04 PM
If some joker named Mr/Ms Kamura, suggested an impossible solution for the tree I might have politely said "OK" and done nothing. If Mr. Kimura of bonsai fame had said it, I think I would have said "OK" and done nothing. I never suggested what you should do with the jin (it will come off, just haven't decided how short yet), I anticipated that you would go out jousting with it. You Cubans can be difficult to understand (I live as far from Oklahoma as you do from Cuba, and have never lived in Oklahoma).

John

Now John I know for a fact that you have lived in Oklahoma for a day.
F
Title: Re: Another Ponderosa Pine
Post by: Hotaction on September 24, 2009, 10:44 PM
If some joker named Mr/Ms Kamura, suggested an impossible solution for the tree I might have politely said "OK" and done nothing. If Mr. Kimura of bonsai fame had said it, I think I would have said "OK" and done nothing. I never suggested what you should do with the jin (it will come off, just haven't decided how short yet), I anticipated that you would go out jousting with it. You Cubans can be difficult to understand (I live as far from Oklahoma as you do from Cuba, and have never lived in Oklahoma).

John

Funniest #$%^ I've heard all day.  The tree looks good.  I do however, feel that kong's virt has some merit.  Before I had scrolled down I looked for a bit and saw the same thing.  It would help to provide a better center of gravity for the tree. One thing I do know is that once something is cut off, it is for good.  For the time being, I think the direction you have gone is fantastic.  No need to go crazy on a first styling, right.  Also, the current state just leaves you with more future options. I agree with not heading down the road of cascade.  With back budding, the canopy should fill in nice for a guy who's reputation preceeds him.  Good luck with this one.

-Dave
Title: Re: Another Ponderosa Pine
Post by: John Kirby on September 25, 2009, 03:54 AM
Dave,
I am sitting here in Narita and have a few minutes to kill before boarding my flight to Chicago. I only have one question, how many years would you be willing to wait to get an apex on one of your trees? If you could please show me a tree that you waited 10-12 years to get the top done, I would love to see it.

Kong's vert makes it a one branch tree, it also takes a 1/4" branchlet and form as an apex with it. Since I know Kong doesn't have a single clue in the world how long it takes a ponderosa to develop. I also think it kind of funny that people are talking about further work on a 11/2 inch branch that I just put a 90 degree bend in.

Cheers,
John
Title: Re: Another Ponderosa Pine
Post by: King Kong on September 25, 2009, 11:43 AM
If some joker named Mr/Ms Kamura, suggested an impossible solution for the tree I might have politely said "OK" and done nothing. If Mr. Kimura of bonsai fame had said it, I think I would have said "OK" and done nothing. I never suggested what you should do with the jin (it will come off, just haven't decided how short yet), I anticipated that you would go out jousting with it. You Cubans can be difficult to understand (I live as far from Oklahoma as you do from Cuba, and have never lived in Oklahoma).

John

Now you tell me the average person could tell the difference between the Midwest states. They are all shaped like a box with strange names like Arkansas. What the heck is a Arkansas? Don't tell me....I bet it has something to do with hot air or smelly wind from ....well  . Now take my vert and get your little saw and tool box and cut that jousting rod off. The tree will thank you for it everyday.
Glad to here you never lived in Oklahoma John, I can understand why you would be sensitive about that mistake.
__gary  

 
Title: Re: Another Ponderosa Pine
Post by: John Kirby on September 25, 2009, 04:51 PM
Nah,  not going to cut it off now, have a little caveman doll with a "Viva Fidel y Raul" teeshirt stuck on it. John
Title: Re: Another Ponderosa Pine
Post by: Hotaction on September 25, 2009, 08:27 PM
John, I can't show you a tree like you describe.  I wasn't suggesting further work on the tree.  I'm new, and just like to test my eye.  I understand further work could risk the health of the tree.  It is a nice piece and like I said, I like what you have done for this first styling. 

-Dave
Title: Re: Another Ponderosa Pine
Post by: King Kong on September 25, 2009, 09:03 PM
Dave, John sees the light now, he is just upset it took a caveman to show him the promised land. Is Arkansas really a state ?  How come it doesn't have a little handle on it?
__gary
Title: Re: Another Ponderosa Pine
Post by: MatsuBonsai on September 25, 2009, 09:35 PM
Ignoring Gary, I don't remember seeing this one before, was it hiding on one of the back benches?  What do see as the next steps for this tree?  I'm looking forward to see what your new photo setup yields.
Title: Re: Another Ponderosa Pine
Post by: John Kirby on September 25, 2009, 11:47 PM
Dave,
Kong (Gary) and I have long tormented each other.  It is easy to propose a design for a tree if you don't actually have to do it. Every tree is a series of compromises, if I do this I get this, but then.... To propose an impossible solution and then act like it is valid is well,    poultry poo (CS for short).

John, yes it was hiding on a back bench, stuck in between some of the big ones. This was one of those trees that I threw in with the  lot because it looked to be a bit of a challenge, and it was different.

John
Title: Re: Another Ponderosa Pine
Post by: Hotaction on September 26, 2009, 02:41 AM
John, I realized I stepped in the middle of a big pile of #$% a little to late, but anyway...  If the tree were mine, I would continue along the same path you are heading, and make the best tree out of what I had.  You asked if I was willing to wait 12-15 years for a new apex, well no I'm not.  So, what do you do? Make the best tree possible without risking the health of the tree. (which you have done)  Maybe in 15 years the time comes for a major overhaul, then a chop back to the branch in question will  bring out the best tree. Then again, maybe not.  You still have the option, and perhaps in 5 years, different options will present themselves.  All in all, you've done a good job, and the knowledge you've contributed to all of the forums is invaluable. Thankyou.

-David
Title: Re: Another Ponderosa Pine
Post by: King Kong on September 26, 2009, 05:31 AM
Dave,
Kong (Gary) and I have long tormented each other.  It is easy to propose a design for a tree if you don't actually have to do it. Every tree is a series of compromises, if I do this I get this, but then.... To propose an impossible solution and then act like it is valid is well,    poultry poo (CS for short).

John, yes it was hiding on a back bench, stuck in between some of the big ones. This was one of those trees that I threw in with the  lot because it looked to be a bit of a challenge, and it was different.

John

Maybe I had better stick to the advanced techniques portion of this forum. I remember when I was told to get on this contraption with two large skinny wheels with a seat in the middle and pedal ...it made no sense to me. I just had to trust the higher authority it would work.

__gary
Title: Re: Another Ponderosa Pine
Post by: John Kirby on September 26, 2009, 03:36 PM
Gary,
Just post some of your trees, you know the ones that have had advanced techniques applied to them.

John
Title: Re: Another Ponderosa Pine
Post by: King Kong on September 26, 2009, 05:41 PM
Right now John I am watching my Daughter's Alma Mater thrash Arkansas with her 'Cuban' husband but I will share some pictures soon for the advanced bonsai people to see.

__gary
Title: Re: Another Ponderosa Pine
Post by: John Kirby on September 26, 2009, 07:19 PM
Oh, I wait with such anticipation. By the way, Alabama looked really good. Not being a naive Arkansan, I don't much follow their sports teams.

Cheers,
John
Title: Re: Another Ponderosa Pine
Post by: Bonsai Study Group Admin on September 26, 2009, 07:31 PM
Come on guys.  Simply Bonsai.  Move along.