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Author Topic: Separated a pot-layered Twin-trunk Japanese Maple  (Read 6976 times)
jlushious
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« Reply #15 on: May 25, 2013, 12:30 AM »

I am new on here and in my wanderings the last few weeks found this posting, am wondering if a technique like this might work well on cuttings. Would wrapping and layering the bottoms with hormone and paper prevent the hormone from washing away or get scraped off a bit when you put it into the soil. I'm guessing you would skip the wire in the case of cuttings though. Thoughts? Also any comment on powder hormone vs. the gel kind?
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bwaynef
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« Reply #16 on: May 29, 2013, 09:46 AM »

JLushious, I'd never considered it for cuttings, but I believe the reasons you present for trying it are sound.  It seems like a lot of work for cuttings, but if you're willing to do it, I'd love to hear how it works out for you. 

Yenling, I opted to leave it in its pot this year buried deeply and will plant it in a suitable container next spring.  I don't really have plans for it.  I saw the twin-trunk and decided it might be worth keeping.  Its not much to look at right now.
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Chrisl
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« Reply #17 on: May 29, 2013, 09:54 AM »

Wayne, do you like the powder better than the gels, like Clonex?
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John Romano
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« Reply #18 on: May 30, 2013, 11:34 AM »

I have been using Clonex for as long as it came on the market and am a big fan of this gel.  I like it because it has a better adhesion to the plant and does not wash off like the powder does. This happened to me last year - I've been growing some black pines from seed every year.  Last year after they emerged, I cut off the roots of the seedlings to make cuttings.  I dipped them all in Clonex and planted them in the shade in small pots.  I went away for a couple of days and when I came back the cuttings were strewn on the ground probably knocked over by some rodent.  I was pissed and walked away.  The next morning I decided it couldn't hurt to pot them back up anyway as the gel was still present on the ends.  They all (15 of them) survived and are in their second year.  My conclusion was that the gel provides a layer of protection for any moisture still under it (I let the cuttings sit in water a bit before dipping in Clonex and potting).  I was obviously surprised and happy with the results.  It is expensive stuff but can be purchased at most hydroponic stores as well as online.  AND, I do not get anything for this endorsement! Wink
John
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bwaynef
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« Reply #19 on: May 31, 2013, 07:34 AM »

I've never used clonex.  There was some liquid I used ...and may have stashed away somewhere, but the powder is handy (in my bonsai toolbag) and effective, so that's what I use.

I'm no expert on any of this.  I just happened to steal someone's idea and took pictures.
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John Romano
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« Reply #20 on: May 31, 2013, 09:05 AM »

Of course, I was not commenting on your technique.  That was great!  I am going to try that.  I just wanted to share my experience with Clonex.  Thanks Bwayne.
john
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Owen Reich
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« Reply #21 on: May 31, 2013, 10:33 AM »

I am new on here and in my wanderings the last few weeks found this posting, am wondering if a technique like this might work well on cuttings. Would wrapping and layering the bottoms with hormone and paper prevent the hormone from washing away or get scraped off a bit when you put it into the soil. I'm guessing you would skip the wire in the case of cuttings though. Thoughts? Also any comment on powder hormone vs. the gel kind?

Paper would likely mess up the emerging roots or at a minimum keep them held close to the trunk.  Could work but I think unnecessary.

My personal preference is Wood's Rooting Compound (has IBA and NAA / NAD) or some generic like IBA (indolebutanoic acid); best results have been when it bound to a Potassium molecule or ion (not sure) and has an alcohol base.  This shot-guns the solution into the tissue and I use the quick-dip method for cuttings.  Powders like Rootone are a bit weak for most trees IMO and Hormodin 1,2, or 3 are powders at different strengths that I feel are effective.  Rootone does have Thiram (a fungicide) in it but you can just buy a fungicide depending on what usually affects a give species and apply separately.  I usually use a chopstick or something slightly larger than the diameter of the stem cutting when using Hormodin products then place the cutting in the hole and firm up the media around it each time. 

I've done some very mean things to Acer palmatum in the past such as taking a 10 foot tall tree down to 4'' and removed 90% of the root system (July in Nashville, TN).  The trick is not to water it after the initial watering in for a few days.  The sap will not bleed as much; especially if you cut off most of the roots. 

That is a pretty big secondary trunk on the maple you've fount and it will be difficult to make something out of that IMO.  By all means go for it as the experience itself would be valuable for future projects.
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bwaynef
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« Reply #22 on: May 31, 2013, 02:38 PM »

Of course, I was not commenting on your technique.  That was great!  I am going to try that.  I just wanted to share my experience with Clonex.  Thanks Bwayne.
john

And I wasn't talking to you.  Smiley  (By the way, I'm almost positive I saw Al post about this technique.  I certainly didn't come up with it.)  Chris above you asked a question that I answered.  Your account of the Clonex saving your over-turned cuttings is certainly a good reason to use Clonex.

That is a pretty big secondary trunk on the maple you've fount and it will be difficult to make something out of that IMO.  By all means go for it as the experience itself would be valuable for future projects.

I'm guessing this was directed at me.  You're probably right. 
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Owen Reich
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« Reply #23 on: May 31, 2013, 05:06 PM »

I was referring to the giant trunked one Dano posted.  I believe yours was in another thread and it is debatable.  If you stunt the secondary trunk by removing most of the branches and let the big trunk go a bit, it's possible.
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akeppler
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« Reply #24 on: May 31, 2013, 11:51 PM »

I did a recent layer on a trident to get a super small mame tree but due to trying to save the bottom and get a tree on top, I made a rather small peel band. Still an inch wide but I was afarid it might try to close up so I gave it two wraps of 2mm wire at the top cut.

This is the layer
« Last Edit: May 31, 2013, 11:57 PM by akeppler » Logged

akeppler
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« Reply #25 on: May 31, 2013, 11:56 PM »

On routine 90 day inspection, it was found that indeed the tree had pushed so hard and so fast that the callus material overshot the wire and still was able to brisge the wound.

I have since recut the callus material and cleaned it up for a second try. What I suspect is that my trunk area is so rittled with pruning scars that getting roots to issue from this area is dicy. It seems that this entire area may be much to chaotic for root emergence. The wire can clearly be seen embedded in my scar tissue. hmm....phase two.....

Time will tell.
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Judy
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« Reply #26 on: June 01, 2013, 02:51 PM »

Question about clonex, does it last any length of time after the bottle has been opened? I've been told that all rooting hormones will loose their potency soon after opening.   
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bwaynef
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« Reply #27 on: June 01, 2013, 05:23 PM »

Judy, the powdered kind doesnt lose its efficacy.
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0soyoung
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« Reply #28 on: June 01, 2013, 11:17 PM »

On routine 90 day inspection, it was found that indeed the tree had pushed so hard and so fast that the callus material overshot the wire and still was able to brisge the wound.

I have since recut the callus material and cleaned it up for a second try. What I suspect is that my trunk area is so rittled with pruning scars that getting roots to issue from this area is dicy. It seems that this entire area may be much to chaotic for root emergence. The wire can clearly be seen embedded in my scar tissue. hmm....phase two.....

Time will tell.

I am a complete non-believer in the wire thingy with a girdle - maybe it works, but it doesn't impress me, so I have not actually tried it. I have done dozens of air-layers, though, and am of the mind that this kind of failure is because there was cambial tissue remaining in the girdle.

I've seen/read of people leaving their layers to air-dry for a day to avoid this problem, but wiping the girdle with isopropyl alcohol is simple, fast, and seems to be quite effective, killing any residual cambium - hence no problems such as this. IIRC, this was a Brent Walston idea. I've not had a bridging problem whenever I've used it - you might try this iso wipe-down next time, Al.
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Owen Reich
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« Reply #29 on: June 02, 2013, 09:27 PM »

I've had success with the wire girdle method on maples but it has not worked on a few conifers.  The iso alcohol idea is interesting and will certainly give it a shot.
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