Bonsai Study Group Forum

Species Specific => Japanese Maple Bonsai Discussion => Topic started by: Kajukid on February 19, 2012, 10:16 PM

Title: Cuttings
Post by: Kajukid on February 19, 2012, 10:16 PM
What time of the year should cuttings be taken?
Title: Re: Cuttings
Post by: meushi on February 20, 2012, 02:27 AM
You can start from early summer with softwood cuttings, probably up to August if you can overwinter them properly.
Title: Re: Cuttings
Post by: Owen Reich on February 20, 2012, 08:09 AM
You sound like a budding (excuse the pun) propagator.  There are two books I'd reccomend.  The first is called: Propagation (it's available at Barnes and Noble and other stores.  I want to say it's by a publisher from England and affiliated with the Royal Botanical Society.  It's better for herbaceous, perennial, and other stuff like bulbs but covers some woody plants.  The second, and by far more detailed, is:  Dirr's Manual For Woody Plant Propagation.  It's by far the best single reference for trees, shrubs, and vines.  Michael Dirr also happens to be a retired professor of the horticulture program from my Alma Mater UGA.  Go Dawgs!   You will need to read the first few chapters as the actual text has lots of abbreviations and slang to save space.  Propagation involves a ton of variables for success which I will not go into here.  Either book covers the topic well.  One piece of advice; if you want few a maples, stick a bunch of cuttings and use a good rooting hormone with Indolebuteric or Napthlacetic Acid in it   :D.
Title: Re: Cuttings
Post by: Adair M on February 20, 2012, 07:14 PM
Off topic for a minute...

Owen, my daughter is at UGA, as a Joint Enrolled high school senior, majoring in music.  She is first chair of the UGA Symphonic Band in the Horn section. (Symphonic Band is not the top band at UGA, but still, it's pretty impressive she's first chair in one of their premier bands on top of a lot of a lot of full fledged college students!)  We don't know if she will be staying at UGA, which she likes very much, or will be going to conservatory.  She's done the auditions, now we're waiting for results.

Back on topic...

I agree with the advice to do a lot of cuttings.  I did cuttings of zelkova, back in the day, and found that it was difficult to get both good roots and good top growth on one cutting.  Seems like I'd get one or the other. Multiplying the number of cuttings would give you better odds of getting a few keepers!
Title: Re: Cuttings
Post by: Owen Reich on February 21, 2012, 01:21 AM
The University of Georgia is an excellent school.  I was supposed to be a third generation Georgia Tech student...... (at least that was my parents' plan)  ;D. 
Title: Re: Cuttings
Post by: meushi on February 21, 2012, 02:07 AM
To quote Edwin Land "If anything is worth doing, it is worth doing to excess". Start a lot of cuttings, keep only the very best ones (give/sell/trade the others at club meetings), rinse, repeat ;)
Title: Re: Cuttings
Post by: Dave Murphy on February 21, 2012, 06:43 AM
The University of Georgia is an excellent school.  I was supposed to be a third generation Georgia Tech student...... (at least that was my parents' plan)  ;D. 
I'll be happy if my kids get into either school.  By the way Owen, I met your mother last week when she was at the Smith Gilbert Gardens in Kennesaw picking up some lime sulfur for you from Rodney Clemons.
Title: Re: Cuttings
Post by: Owen Reich on February 21, 2012, 07:18 AM
Small world  ;D.  I heard the rumor about the "ban" and even though I checked to see if it was true (which it wasn't) still bought some.  I was in the middle of painting Acer palmatum trunks for our Kokufu-ten vendor area.
Title: Re: Cuttings
Post by: Owen Reich on February 21, 2012, 07:38 AM
Meushi, that is a very good point.  When I go to auctions, there are often tray upon tray full of seedlings (especially broom-style zelkova) and grafted Pre-bonsai up for bid.  At first glance, there is nothing wrong with them.  One day, Mr. Fujikawa saw me looking and just said "gomi" (trash) and walked off.  Most would be perfectly fine in the short term.  But the kicker is, 40 years from now they will just be "ok" bonsai.  Some flaws like nasty a bend.... but great nebari.... are not worth the trouble.  I've heard 1 in 10 (also heard one in 100) broom styles starter trees passes muster when digging field grown trees.   
Title: Re: Cuttings
Post by: meushi on February 21, 2012, 07:51 AM
Owen, exactly! Spending time over 40 years fixing less than perfect starter material is "mendokusai"!

I tried explaining the concept on another forum but most people couldn't deal with the idea of chucking out hundreds of "OK-ish" seedlings. I'm trying to apply that to the field maples and black pine seedlings I'm starting... keep maybe the top 1% for bonsai and get rid of the rest (hedge material or swaps).
Title: Re: Cuttings
Post by: Chrisl on February 21, 2012, 10:49 AM
Boy, kinda depressing to hear this.  I'm going to plant some seedlings this spring, but only bought like 3-5 seedlings ea.  Now I feel like I have to buy another 50 to have one that I like in 5 yrs. lol 
Title: Re: Cuttings
Post by: Adair M on February 21, 2012, 12:36 PM
Chris,

Start working on the nebari as soon as possible. 
Title: Re: Cuttings
Post by: Chrisl on February 21, 2012, 04:20 PM
I'm going to plant them over tiles Adair, so I'll be off to a good start.  But I've read about the importance to dig the plant up every 2-3 yrs and root prune.  At least that's my plan.
Title: Re: Cuttings
Post by: Owen Reich on February 21, 2012, 11:15 PM
There are a couple big players in the woody plant market.  One is Sheffield Seed.  There are few more that sell seed with known provenance by the ounce and even pound. 
Title: Re: Cuttings
Post by: John Kirby on February 22, 2012, 08:44 AM
Schumacher tends to be pretty good, I have dealt with them for years. There JRP tend to be 100% to type (or close to it) the JBP tend to have some Hybrids. Maples, hornbeams, etc, have come true to type, for me. Just started 4 oz of DW small leaf tridents (whatever they are in the seed trade), a lb of Ume, an oz of Carpinus t. and an oz of P densiflora. Japanese Quince and J maples are next.

John
Title: Re: Cuttings
Post by: Sorce on July 21, 2014, 06:09 AM
Schumacher tends to be pretty good, I have dealt with them for years. There JRP tend to be 100% to type (or close to it) the JBP tend to have some Hybrids. Maples, hornbeams, etc, have come true to type, for me. Just started 4 oz of DW small leaf tridents (whatever they are in the seed trade), a lb of Ume, an oz of Carpinus t. and an oz of P densiflora. Japanese Quince and J maples are next.

John

Update!
Title: Re: Cuttings
Post by: John Kirby on November 14, 2014, 05:55 PM
Most are sold, others are growing away. Have I ever posted pictures of seedlings?
Title: Re: Cuttings
Post by: bwaynef on February 12, 2016, 04:17 PM
Most are sold, others are growing away. Have I ever posted pictures of seedlings?

@John Kirby I don't recall ever seeing any.
Title: Re: Cuttings
Post by: DorianJF on February 15, 2016, 04:55 AM
Interesting thoughts on cuttings.

I have been planning to put some trident maple cuttings in the ground but with us heading into autumn, I am holding off until next season.