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Author Topic: Building maples, attention Boon/Boon students  (Read 4354 times)
Josh
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« on: April 10, 2012, 12:46 PM »

I have several japanese maple (green, deshojo, kiyo hime) and trident which I wish to bulk up and build basic branch structure in the next 1-3 years.  All have been cut back in winter, repotted in generous wooden boxes and have trunk diameters 1-4".  I let them grow out this spring with shoots 12-24" in length, then did simple trim and basic wiring.  I am not looking to ramify at this time, just wishing to set major branches and gain trunk and branch girth, "Boon style" approach (maple video). 

I noticed that most of the spring growth has long internodes, which may make ramification more difficult down the line.  How best to build these primary branches?  Let the shoots grow long, and cut back to 2-4 internodes sometime in summer?  Let them grow all year?  Wire will need to come off, as thickening already occurring.  Mid year cut back, and let a second flush grow for the rest of the year?

Thanks, Josh
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nathanbs
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« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2012, 02:11 PM »

I am neither Boon or one of his students(unfortunately) however I just read in Harry Harringtons new book that you should allow sacrifice branches grow to act as a sort of sap sucker(energy sucker), he says that by allowing these unnecessary branches remain during the growing season it will help reduce internodal length. I would say the only thing one would have to worry about would be allowing one to grow for too long and cause unnecessary thickening at the origin of the sap sucker.
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John Kirby
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« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2012, 04:01 PM »

As with Nathans post, you need to do one thing or the other. Let them push to get the roots right, my assumption is that you have absolutely barerooted the tree and removed all roots (every single one) that grow down from the base. If you haven't, it is worth doing early. Te earlier you do it, the sooner you get those nice flat bases that let you put the tree in a nice shallow show pot (if that is your goals. It also ensures that all of the fluid is brought up through roots that are pointed out and results in that nice flare and if you work on it (and desire it) eventually leads to that nice pancake base you see on many Japanese trees, and some here as well.
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MatsuBonsai
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« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2012, 05:23 PM »

Here are a couple that I'm playing with.  Letting the top run on both.  Thinned the lower branches a bit this past weekend to keep the low growth in check, and to allow plenty of light and air in.

One of the trees had a an air layer taken last year. 

Some of the larger branches have been removed already to minimize large scars.  Plenty of bud information at the base of the branches for possible future branches.

Fertilizer close to the base to form a nice fat base.  Thanks Michael!
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J

MatsuBonsai
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« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2012, 05:24 PM »

More
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J

boon
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« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2012, 11:06 PM »

I have several japanese maple (green, deshojo, kiyo hime) and trident which I wish to bulk up and build basic branch structure in the next 1-3 years.  All have been cut back in winter, repotted in generous wooden boxes and have trunk diameters 1-4".  I let them grow out this spring with shoots 12-24" in length, then did simple trim and basic wiring.  I am not looking to ramify at this time, just wishing to set major branches and gain trunk and branch girth, "Boon style" approach (maple video). 

I noticed that most of the spring growth has long internodes, which may make ramification more difficult down the line.  How best to build these primary branches?  Let the shoots grow long, and cut back to 2-4 internodes sometime in summer?  Let them grow all year?  Wire will need to come off, as thickening already occurring.  Mid year cut back, and let a second flush grow for the rest of the year?

Thanks, Josh

Josh,
you are growing them and want the trunk thicker,  do not worry about long internode.  after you reach the trunk size you need then start working on the branches.  let it grow and wire in april/ May, then let it grow the whole year.  replace wire a few times.  then after the leaves change color then cut back to 2-3 sets of leaves.
thanks,

 
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Chrisl
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« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2012, 10:55 AM »

Matsu, in image 0440, it looks like the sacrificial branch is perfect girth now...same diam. of the trunk below.  Is it not time to cut that back and let grow all this season for continued taper? 
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cbobgo
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« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2012, 12:14 PM »

Matsu, I have a question about your placing the fertilizer close to the base, and your statement that this produces a fat base.

Conceptually, I would think it would be the opposite - if you put the fert farther out that would encourage the roots to grow out to reach it, thus the roots were grow longer and fatter.  Whereas if the firt is up close, you will just have a bunch of feeder roots there absorbing it, not the larger lateral roots that we want.

Could you explain your position a bit more?

- bob
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MatsuBonsai
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« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2012, 01:58 PM »

Chris,  I think you're looking at the continuation of the trunkline, not a sacrificial branch. 

Bob, not my position, it was Michael's.  Seems to be doing "something".  Did you follow the link?

As I said, these are just play trees.  Should have put more movement in them much earlier.

Al has a lot of experience growing out nice fat tridents for bonsai.  Al, care to share your thoughts, opinions, suggestions?
« Last Edit: April 14, 2012, 02:00 PM by MatsuBonsai » Logged

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cbobgo
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« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2012, 02:06 PM »

ah, I didn't see the link, thanks.

So, the concept is that it's the little feeder roots that fuse together, not the larger roots getting larger until they become a really wide base.  Got it.

- bob

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MatsuBonsai
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« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2012, 02:16 PM »

I think so.  I'm trying this while they're young, and will probably try the root/board/nail technique as they get older.
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J

akeppler
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« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2012, 02:58 PM »

A lot of advice has already been given but the first question has not been asked.

What kind of maple is one trying to represent.

Massive trunked curving , tapered moyogi?

or....

Lessor trunked multi branched spreading oak type maple?

The methods for each are not interchangable!
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akeppler
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« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2012, 03:15 PM »

Dressed...
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Chrisl
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« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2012, 08:08 AM »

Chris,  I think you're looking at the continuation of the trunkline, not a sacrificial branch.

You're right.  Thanks for pointing out my misperception.....doh! Wink
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MatsuBonsai
John Callaway
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« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2012, 06:50 PM »

No worries.  That's the problem with 2-d photos, it's often difficult to show the in-person perspective.
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J

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