Bonsai Study Group Forum

Species Specific => Japanese Black Pine Bonsai Discussion => Topic started by: Kajukid on January 06, 2012, 03:36 PM

Title: Repotted it....
Post by: Kajukid on January 06, 2012, 03:36 PM
okay so i put a pic of the tree in a post before and Boon said it wasnt good material, but thats not going to stop me...haha so i repotted in lastnight, i only took off about 3 inches of the old soil off from the bottom up...in a couple of years i will take the rest of the soil out...i have been lookin at the tree for some time now and it does lack taper, but i think i might have found a new leader....i marked it in blue...what do you all think of it??? but first i want to get the tree strong before i do any styling on the tree...
Title: Re: Repotted it....
Post by: John Kirby on January 06, 2012, 03:41 PM
Well I still have to agree with Boon.
Title: Re: Repotted it....
Post by: Jay on January 06, 2012, 03:52 PM
So you are from the school that believes that if you find it and put it in a pot and call it a Bonsai it WILL be a Bonsai. (Disclaimer I was in that school for a long long time).

OR, you are in the group that believes that you can learn on any tree no matter what the future potential is. (Again I was in that school).

OR.... you feel that having good material at first is not necessary (Been there done that also).

OK you can start from a seed and grow Bonsai, but... not all seeds will develop in a way that makes them good Bonsai. And it takes a long...long...long time.

Guess what:
It does matter what you start with
You can and will learn more from a tree with a future
Having trees with potential is always a good thing.....
It is better to have a couple of 'good' trees than a couple dozen of trees in pots

just my two cents
Jay
Title: Re: Repotted it....
Post by: Kajukid on January 06, 2012, 04:31 PM
Well I still have to agree with Boon.
Lol thanks john. But I'm still gonna work with tree no matter what lol. It's gonna take some years but I can all was turn it in to a shohin. Im not gonna give up on this tree. Lol
Title: Re: Repotted it....
Post by: Kajukid on January 06, 2012, 04:43 PM
So you are from the school that believes that if you find it and put it in a pot and call it a Bonsai it WILL be a Bonsai. (Disclaimer I was in that school for a long long time).

OR, you are in the group that believes that you can learn on any tree no matter what the future potential is. (Again I was in that school).

OR.... you feel that having good material at first is not necessary (Been there done that also).

OK you can start from a seed and grow Bonsai, but... not all seeds will develop in a way that makes them good Bonsai. And it takes a long...long...long time.

Guess what:
It does matter what you start with
You can and will learn more from a tree with a future
Having trees with potential is always a good thing.....
It is better to have a couple of 'good' trees than a couple dozen of trees in pots

just my two cents
Jay
Jay- I never said it was a bonsai. It's gonna take many many years to make it into a bonsai. And no I'm not in any of those clubs. The club I'm in only wants us to do good bonsai. I keep hearing wonderful things about Boon's teaching so I feel like I'm in a good club and I'm gonna learn a lot. But thanks for your thoughts
Title: Re: Repotted it....
Post by: Chrisl on January 07, 2012, 05:42 PM
Nice Jay!  Very well put.  I feel like I just am entering the "It is better to have a couple of 'good' trees than a couple dozen of trees in pots" phase ;))


So you are from the school that believes that if you find it and put it in a pot and call it a Bonsai it WILL be a Bonsai. (Disclaimer I was in that school for a long long time).

OR, you are in the group that believes that you can learn on any tree no matter what the future potential is. (Again I was in that school).

OR.... you feel that having good material at first is not necessary (Been there done that also).

OK you can start from a seed and grow Bonsai, but... not all seeds will develop in a way that makes them good Bonsai. And it takes a long...long...long time.

Guess what:
It does matter what you start with
You can and will learn more from a tree with a future
Having trees with potential is always a good thing.....
It is better to have a couple of 'good' trees than a couple dozen of trees in pots

just my two cents
Jay
Title: Re: Repotted it....
Post by: John Kirby on January 07, 2012, 07:10 PM
I know, you have all the answers, but if you are going to try and make a tree out of the material you have, you need to get the roots fixed. Since you didn't bareroot it, I can only imagine what the nebari will look like. It is profoundly disappointing to put all of the effort into growing a good trunk and branches to end up with bad roots. If you don't do the roots now, you likely won't ever do them.You can't fix them once they get large.
Title: Re: Repotted it....
Post by: Jay on January 07, 2012, 08:21 PM
Kaju, I am FAR from an expert or even an advanced student. I am just progressing and enjoying the ride. Thought I'd give you some thoughts from someone who had been there and done that. But you may be different.

As for John Kirby, although I do not know him or for that matter have even met him, I do know that he is far advanced and more knowledgeable than I (and many others on this board). I strongly urge you to take to heart his thoughts.

again just my 2 cents
Jay
Title: Re: Repotted it....
Post by: Kajukid on January 07, 2012, 09:27 PM
I know, you have all the answers, but if you are going to try and make a tree out of the material you have, you need to get the roots fixed. Since you didn't bareroot it, I can only imagine what the nebari will look like. It is profoundly disappointing to put all of the effort into growing a good trunk and branches to end up with bad roots. If you don't do the roots now, you likely won't ever do them.You can't fix them once they get large.
I understand what your saying john. And no
I don't have all the answers. I wished I did. But how would I fix the nebari without killing the tree? I hear JPB root are sensitive.
Title: Re: Repotted it....
Post by: John Kirby on January 07, 2012, 09:35 PM
That is why you need to listen to Boon, he will teach you.
Title: Re: Repotted it....
Post by: Kajukid on January 07, 2012, 10:05 PM
That is why you need to listen to Boon, he will teach you.
and i will listen...thanks john...see you at the show if your going to be there
Title: Re: Repotted it....
Post by: nathanbs on January 08, 2012, 01:57 PM
an experienced bonsai grower could easily turn that young JBP into an amazing tree someday. But first and foremost you need to either superfeed it in the pot(it will need to have any non fast draining soil removed, and it will need to be put into a pot that drains better like a colander) or put it in the ground. Second you need time, but most importantly you need to know what you are doing as far as trunk/branch/root management and development are concerned. You can learn as you go as long as you dont jump the gun and make mistakes that are not correctable.
Step1:figure out your growing situation
step2:Put a strong bend in the first several inches of the trunk
step3:leave all of the branches as they are but consider removing any wagon wheel opposing branches as you can generate reverse taper(i have seen black pines grown for nursery stock that were left 100% alone and they did not develope reverse taper in these areas)
step4:when the vertical sacrificial branch gets approx .75"-2" thick its time to remove it a replace it with a new leader.
step5:as long as the tree is healthy and you do step 4 at the right time you should get some back budding that will provide not only future sacrifice branches but also maybe some keepers for the future tree.
step6:by this step hopefully you'll know how to do the rest :)
Title: Re: Repotted it....
Post by: John Kirby on January 08, 2012, 07:48 PM
Sure. Go get'em Tiger.