Author Topic: JBP 1 - Where to from here.  (Read 10576 times)

DorianJF

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JBP 1 - Where to from here.
« on: February 18, 2015, 03:44 AM »
Hi All.

I planted 10 JBP seeds a few years ago and got 2 of them to take and grow.  One was in a windswept Style (that now seems to be dying on me) and then the other one now in this thread.

I took it to a Bonsai Nursery and they helped me put a nice bend into the trunk.

Problem is where to I go to from here. 

Herman gave the following suggestions
"that bud on the bottom of the trunk is golden!!! use that as your future trunk line in a few years when it has become strong enough, use the rest as sacrifice growth to beef the trunk up. Well that's just one way of doing it, I like the bends you put into the trunk.

You practically have a blank canvas with a very good start in terms of trunk movement, you can go tall literati, semi cascade, cascade, informal upright, slanting....."


I was thinking of potting into a larger pot to assist with growth and Kent suggested the following.
"Planting into bigger pots? Be careful with that - pines root groth is slowly. Your soil ( the organic part) will decompose much quicker than the roots will make use of it. You will end up with a mean soil fungus ( like me) which really sucks!"

Lets hear your thoughts on this and how would you proceed

All advice greatly appreciated.


 

Sorce

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Re: JBP 1 - Where to from here.
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2015, 04:50 AM »
I would try to wire that quadrant of shade away from that new bud.

Your last wire coil is in the right direction to pull it away. 2 pliers, bend the wire technique.  You could probably throw some wire on the four lil branches up there too to expose them better to even sunlight.

That bud could be a new leader, or a sacrifice. Golden for sure either way!

If those next 2 branches up back bud, they could be new leader and first branch, since the movement in the trunk to there is so nice.

Oh there is a lil budlet there. Green new leader apex bud in photo. I don't know pines, but this seems a feasible direction.

Sorce
 

DorianJF

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Re: JBP 1 - Where to from here.
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2015, 02:56 AM »
Thanks so much Sorce

I will definitely look into that.   Next months Bonsai club meeting is exactly about JBP so this one will be going with for some expert advice
 

DorianJF

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Re: JBP 1 - Where to from here.
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2015, 07:16 AM »
A quick update on this JBP.

Spring is on us and we were lucky to have a very mild winter.

I found an article by Kusida Matsuo in a old copy of Bonsai Today Vol 20 about thickening up the trunk of a JBP by using a colander.  I decided to try this out on the JBP to see if I can speed this process up and help this tree on its way (hopefully not to Bonsai heaven)

I removed the wire as it had just started to cut into the trunk and planted it into a mix of LECA and perlite.  I water it 3x daily and will start to fertilise it in about 3 - 4 weeks.  Just giving it time to settle.  There are numerous new buds coming out at the top and then there is a new bud on the one branch and one on the trunk.  Hopefully those will all assist with thickening up the trunk.
 

Adair M

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Re: JBP 1 - Where to from here.
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2015, 10:33 PM »
Is that a double colander?

Since that issue of Bonsai Today was published, many have died planting in commanders. Single and double.

The benefit of a single colander is. that when the extending root hits the edge of the colander, it encounters air. So, if stops extending, and backbuds new roots closer to the trunk. When roots hit the wall of a pot, they think they e hit a rock, and try to go around it. Thus circling the pot. So, the colander promotes a better root system by promoting root backbudding.

So, why double colander?  When the roots hit that first colander, they'll just squeeze through. No backbudding. It's not until the second colander wall is hit that the backbudding occurs. But it's most likely to occur between the colanders!  Not close to the trunk.

And later, you'll find that the only way to separate the tree from that first colander is to cut it off. Thus removing the backbudding!

The "double colander" is a flawed technique. Single colanders is the wa to go!
 
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DorianJF

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Re: JBP 1 - Where to from here.
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2015, 01:59 AM »
Hi Adair

Thanks so much for all that information. 

The benefit of a single colander is. that when the extending root hits the edge of the colander, it encounters air. So, if stops extending, and backbuds new roots closer to the trunk. When roots hit the wall of a pot, they think they e hit a rock, and try to go around it. Thus circling the pot. So, the colander promotes a better root system by promoting root backbudding.

So, why double colander?  When the roots hit that first colander, they'll just squeeze through. No backbudding. It's not until the second colander wall is hit that the backbudding occurs. But it's most likely to occur between the colanders!  Not close to the trunk.

And later, you'll find that the only way to separate the tree from that first colander is to cut it off. Thus removing the backbudding!

The "double colander" is a flawed technique. Single colanders is the wa to go!

I have included the image of the article.  My understanding was that the thicker roots will not penetrate the colander and only push the finer roots through.  It is those finer roots that one wants that will assist with the rapid thickening of the trunk. 

Am I incorrect in this? This pine is very important to me as I have grown it from seed and want to make sure that I do the best for it.
 

DorianJF

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Re: JBP 1 - Where to from here.
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2015, 01:12 AM »
I had a look at the JBP yesterday and I think I have a little pine cone growing.

Is this normal?  Should it be cut off or left?
 

Anthony

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Re: JBP 1 - Where to from here.
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2015, 10:56 AM »
Dorian,

the double colander - treat as a simple way to add more soil, without repotting.

Our Caribbean pine in the double colander grew even more and as Adair said, you have to cut the roots off to get back to the first
colander. In our case, we can leave the pine in the first colander add some more organic material to the top of the soil and the tree will grow new roots back along the lines of the air-pot system.

Ask about how to thicken the trunk, and keep shoots close to the trunk -> Adair.

Coming along nicely.
Good Day
Anthony
 

DorianJF

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Re: JBP 1 - Where to from here.
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2015, 03:01 AM »
Thanks so much for the feedback Anthony.
 

Herman

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Re: JBP 1 - Where to from here.
« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2015, 10:23 AM »
Hi Dorian,

Idk but it looks to me like those top 4 branches are going to suck up all the sap and those bottom branches are going to suffer for it(become weaker and leggier as time passes, may not be able to handle any shortening as is, worse later). Maybe reduce the number of branches in that top knuckle down to two or even one and use it as a sacrifice branch to thicken up the trunk. you may even get some back budding from branch removal as the sapflow is directed to the lower branches, feed the crap out of the tree and when those bottom branches look like they will be able to handle a pruning, cut off all spring growth to about 2mm from where it started. I do this on 16th of December each year to strong trees.

Best regards
Herman
« Last Edit: September 22, 2015, 10:27 AM by Herman »
 

Adair M

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Re: JBP 1 - Where to from here.
« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2015, 08:14 PM »
Dorian,

All roots start off as fine roots, and get bigger over time. Big roots don't "push through". They stay where they are. So do fine roots. But fine roots thicken as they age, just like trunks and branches. Over time, fine roots pushing through the colander, and Into new soil will thicken Into thick roots. And then, they will get constricted by the colander. And create bulges. Much like the bulging scars that form when wire is left on too long.

No, "double colandering" is a flawed technique. If you need to up pot, just remove the original colander, and put it in a larger one.
 

DorianJF

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Re: JBP 1 - Where to from here.
« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2015, 02:16 AM »
Thanks so much Adair.

I will remove the smaller Colanders over the weekend.