Author Topic: Nursery can JBP  (Read 4488 times)

bwaynef

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Nursery can JBP
« on: September 23, 2009, 11:20 AM »
This tree is a recent acquisition after having lost a few nice trees this year.  I've gotten some good feedback since then and hope not to duplicate a situation leading to that fate for this (and other) tree(s).

The soil this tree is in is very loamy and as such does NOT drain well.  Repotting is in order this spring.  I've been instructed to bareroot the front half of the soil in the spring and do the back half in 2011 or 2012.

I spotted a faint yellow band on some needles, so after plucking (a bit early) I sprayed with Daconil to prevent fungal issues from working this tree come next year. 

The tree is pretty much as I got it, minus a few needles and needlessly long branches.  I expect this tree will be tall and possibly feminine even though its trunk is pretty thick.  We'll see.  I see some challenges near the apex with the movement in the trunk.

Any tips or ideas?
 

Tom Mounce

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Re: Nursery can JBP
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2009, 03:24 PM »
I would fertilize the tree well from now until the end of November and keep in full sun. I have never tried the 1/2 bare root re-pot method with black pines. Normally if the tree is growing well and a young tree, it can handle removing the old soil during a re-pot in the spring and do fine in a course mix. If you are worried about the soil mix staying too wet you can always slip pot the tree in to a clay pot for the winter. This will help to keep the soil on the dryer side until spring. If you want to thicken up the trunk, make sure and keep 3 or 4 sacrifice branches that you can remove in a few years. Do not decandle your sacrifice branches and let them grow, you will be amazed at how quick you can thicken up a trunk this way.

Good luck,

Tom
 

Rick Moquin

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Re: Nursery can JBP
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2009, 03:36 PM »
I'm reminded of what Bill V once told me. No guts no glory. It is too late in season to do anything now. Come spring, arounf early May sometime, bareroot the tree and plant in bonsai soil. None of this 1/4 - 1/2 whatever, do it. The latter is what i do with all my trees, success rate 98%. The 2% represents a tree that was already dead, that I tried to save.

After 2 weeks or so, if it shows signs of growth, fertilize the heck out of it.
 

John Kirby

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Re: Nursery can JBP
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2009, 09:29 PM »
Wayne,
Go look at Rick's website if you want to know ho much credence to put into this advice.

Cheers,
John
 

Rick Moquin

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Re: Nursery can JBP
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2009, 11:59 PM »
Barerooting is also a practice that Walter professes...
 

John Kirby

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Re: Nursery can JBP
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2009, 02:48 AM »
And so do I when the tree is strong, or if it looks like it is suffering from root rot. I also bareroot ponderosa, rocky mountain junipers, etc. This tree is somewhat weak, it does not appear to be dying from root rot, it needs some time to gain strength, by being a bit cautious he can repot and work the tree the same year, a bit, and then finish up the repotting and have a healthy, live tree.

Wayne is looking around for advice, this tree was discussed in the pine class on Bonsai Vault, he is trying to be both cautious and informed.

John
 

bonsaikc

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Re: Nursery can JBP
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2009, 10:21 AM »
Bare-rooting half the rootball this year and the other half in a subsequent repotting gives us the best of both worlds. It prevents tree death due to overzealous work, and allows us to replace all the soil on the tree. It is the safest method around for completely replacing the soil of an evergreen conifer like pines and junipers.

More trees have been lost by doing to much to them than were ever lost by neglect.

Chris
 

mcpesq817

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Re: Nursery can JBP
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2009, 10:57 AM »
On a juniper I brought to a Boon repotting workshop that was in bad soil for my area, he suggested removing the front half of the soil, and removing the back half in a repot in two years - I took that advice and my tree is looking very healthy.  A full repot tends to weaken the tree a bit, so given that your tree is already a bit weak (and my sense that pines are a bit more touchy than junipers), I think I would follow the advice that John and Chris have given you. 

The only qualification I would make is that you should try to remove the original soil under the trunk, or at least break it up a bit, in your next repot.  I lost a new scots pine this year - when I pulled the tree out of the pot to try and figure out what was wrong, I noticed that the soil right under the trunk was very wet, whereas most of the soil outside of the area under the base was draining pretty well.  I'm not sure if there is a tendency in trees in bad soil to have very wet spots right under the trunk, but I throw that out there for your consideration.

 

Rick Moquin

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Re: Nursery can JBP
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2009, 02:37 PM »
... understood.

A clarification:

Depending on the state of the root ball and the soil that is present, doing it in half(s) may lead to worst problems than bare rooting it. Let me explain...

When I say bareroot I mean soil removal, that is it. The tree is then planted out in good substrate and allowed to gain/regain vigour. No root work or any other work for that matter takes place until the tree is prospering.

To leave a portion of the old soil could result in the old soil being too saturated causing improper areation etc... especially in a compacted root ball under the trunk itself, in comparison with the newer free draining soil that requires a greater watering frequency thus magnifying the "wetness" and water retention of the old soil. That is what many profess and in which I do as well. Bare rooting a tree does not necessarily mean recklessness...
 

John Kirby

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Re: Nursery can JBP
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2009, 05:07 PM »
Rick,
I understand completely where you are coming from. If this were a "mountain" tree or a tree that had previously had root work done to it sitting in a pot of muck with little root growth, I would do as you have suggested, and have. The problem I expect that Wayne will find is that the tree has very little soil n the pot- mostly roots. The roots will be coiled around the inside of the pot and he will end up cutting a huge portion of the root off to get t right. You frequently see this on trees grown in the peat/bark based nursery potting mixes, the organic rots away and the tree may actually settle in the pot over time.

The point you make about roots being left in the fetid soil is quite true, and is one of the reason why you always leave roots extending beyond the edge of any soil left on so that the trees roots already have a bit of a headstart into the fresh, rapidly draining,  highly oxygenated soil. I have seen it work too many times.

John

 

bwaynef

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Re: Nursery can JBP
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2010, 10:48 AM »
I repotted this tree this weekend.  I was starting to get worried about what was beneath the soil, the longer I looked at the lower trunk.  My concerns weren't without merit.

I dug away the soil at the soil line until I got a better idea of what was going on.  Then started barerooting half of the root ball.  Then I sawed off 2-3" from the bottom all the way across.  There were some AWFUL roots, but there were also plenty of good roots left.

I don't have a picture of it (yet) potted up, but imagine it sitting more upright in a 12" pond basket w/ Boon Mix™.
 

akeppler

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Re: Nursery can JBP
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2010, 09:28 AM »
I have little to no experience with pines. I loove them, have a few, but not like tridents and other species. What will happen to these branches in the future. Will the bud back close or do we hope for new buds along the trunk to build better branches with later?

Al
 

bwaynef

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Re: Nursery can JBP
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2010, 01:29 PM »
I've already got new buds 2 and in some cases 3 years back into older wood.  All I did was to needle pluck it (later than is recommended) and feed it heavily and late into the fall.

After this repot I'm going to let it start growing and then start fertilizing* it.  Hopefully it will be growing strongly in time to needle pluck and candle prune early this summer.  It should start looking completely different by fall as I'll be able to remove some branches and shorten others.


*Gro-Power Planting Tablets (12-8-8) as they seem to be highly recommended,  whatever organics I can manage to keep on the tree and away from my dog**, with weekly applications of humic acid (58%) & miracle grow/Peters ...w/ foliar sprays of the last mix as often as I can remember to.

**She seems to have acquired a taste for Cayenne Pepper powder and Habanero sauce both applied in liberal doses to a mix of Cottonseed meal & Espoma BioTone.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2010, 01:31 PM by bwaynef »
 

John Kirby

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Re: Nursery can JBP
« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2010, 05:53 PM »
NIce Wayne. DOn't be afraid to add some osmocote too, get the nitrogen up. Wait for about 4 weeks after repotting then start adding the low test fertilizer, start adding nitrogen when it starts to push- late april or so. This summer, cut the candles, out at the ends and top in particular, but I wouldn't pull anymore needles. You need this tree to really "pop" to get stronger.

John
 

bwaynef

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Re: Nursery can JBP
« Reply #14 on: July 08, 2010, 10:27 AM »
Before and after decandling.  No needles were plucked.  Roots were/are growing out the bottom of this container.  So far I'm pretty happy w/ Boon Mix™.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2010, 10:28 AM by bwaynef »