Author Topic: Newly Acquired Japanese Black Pines  (Read 4636 times)

nathanbs

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Re: Newly Acquired Japanese Black Pines
« Reply #15 on: November 27, 2012, 01:14 AM »
45 degrees Celsius is like 113 Fahrenheit nowhere close to 150 but in any case if your air temp is 113 then the temp in a pot or on the ground could even surpass 150 Fahrenheit. Definitely hot enough to kill roots. You missed my point I wasn't talking about a metal cooking pot. I was talking about an empty clay pot sitting in 100+ degree heat is hot enough to cook an egg
 

Herman

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Re: Newly Acquired Japanese Black Pines
« Reply #16 on: November 27, 2012, 01:30 AM »
LOL LOL, Nathan do you realise that 150 is 65 celcius, no living being could survive 65 for long....anyhow...no I don't believe you could bake an egg in a clay pot outside in 100 farenheit...it will maybe become hard due to the water evaporating out of the egg, but bake it...nope...it may be possible on metal, not on clay...

As for in the bonsai pot...I have a meter that tests temp and if the soil is drenched, wet, damp or dry. And I can assure you that the temp inside a pot is never higher than the temp outside, in fact it is always substantially lower. It does get higher than usuall as the soil get dryer inside the pot...but again, nowhere near harmfull
 

nathanbs

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Re: Newly Acquired Japanese Black Pines
« Reply #17 on: November 27, 2012, 09:49 AM »
Once again Herman you seem to know more than everyone else including Ryan Neil. It is a great honor that you are on BSG to share your vast knowledge. Next time it is over 100F airtemp crack an egg on the ground. Prefererably on something that absorbs heat like a pot or asphalt and see what happens.
 

Herman

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Re: Newly Acquired Japanese Black Pines
« Reply #18 on: November 27, 2012, 11:19 AM »
 :)Asphalt is black...so it will have temp high enough to bake an egg...use common sense nathan...don't get mad and sarcastic...and stop comparing rediculous stuff to a bonsai pot with soil in it...ps I'll crack an egg tomorrow and take a few pics for you...do you want it on clay, metal or asphalt?  ??? Its okay since our medium temp for nov and december are always over 100 farenheit....not that baking an egg on these materials in direct sunlight proves anything anyway...its nowhere near the exact circumstances we find in a bonsai pot...tell you what, take a flu thermometer and stick it in any pot you choose, with a tree in it, document what you've found and post it here :)
 

nathanbs

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Re: Newly Acquired Japanese Black Pines
« Reply #19 on: November 27, 2012, 11:57 AM »
on a darker clay pot and try another on a black plastic nursery can.
 

Herman

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Re: Newly Acquired Japanese Black Pines
« Reply #20 on: November 27, 2012, 05:10 PM »
 ROTFL!!! Okay how about I just measure the temp inside a dark bonsai pot for you, you can choose the pot...ps I'm rather going to let my wife make me a hearty breakfast with those two eggs, since the debate is not about baking eggs on the ground, but about the soil temp inside a bonsai pot on a very hot day. Also I will move this debate to a new thread, I think we are way past hijacking this thread...we took it through a chop shop already...
 

John Kirby

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Re: Newly Acquired Japanese Black Pines
« Reply #21 on: November 28, 2012, 08:00 AM »
One way to get around this issue of pots overheating is to place reflective wraps on the pots, eg., place a wet white towel over the surface of the soil and the exposed sides of the pot. Just a thought, this will allow you to save your eggs for the frying pan- or the omelet.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2012, 08:01 AM by John Kirby »
 

nathanbs

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Re: Newly Acquired Japanese Black Pines
« Reply #22 on: November 28, 2012, 12:07 PM »
One way to get around this issue of pots overheating is to place reflective wraps on the pots, eg., place a wet white towel over the surface of the soil and the exposed sides of the pot. Just a thought, this will allow you to save your eggs for the frying pan- or the omelet.

Herman convinced me that pots do not get hot but thanks anyways ;)
 

Herman

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Re: Newly Acquired Japanese Black Pines
« Reply #23 on: November 28, 2012, 01:20 PM »
One way to get around this issue of pots overheating is to place reflective wraps on the pots, eg., place a wet white towel over the surface of the soil and the exposed sides of the pot. Just a thought, this will allow you to save your eggs for the frying pan- or the omelet.

Yes that will help a lot, especially around mid day when the temp is at its highest. The water evaporating from the towel will cool down the pot, if its needed
One way to get around this issue of pots overheating is to place reflective wraps on the pots, eg., place a wet white towel over the surface of the soil and the exposed sides of the pot. Just a thought, this will allow you to save your eggs for the frying pan- or the omelet.

Herman convinced me that pots do not get hot but thanks anyways ;)

As I've said...I think its more to do with rapid water loss leading to loss of fine feeder roots...

Something interesting:

My friend almost lost his precumbens nana juniper, because the mix he used was too free draining and kept too little water...it killed off fine feeder roots...this just goes to show how important the right soil mix is for your area and the specific tree.
 

John Kirby

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Re: Newly Acquired Japanese Black Pines
« Reply #24 on: November 28, 2012, 01:27 PM »
So, did he quantify the loss in fine feeder roots, or just speculate?
 

Herman

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Re: Newly Acquired Japanese Black Pines
« Reply #25 on: November 28, 2012, 03:20 PM »
LOL LOL! No sir he tried to slip pot the pre cumbens with minimal disturbance into a finer mix, and we saw some feeder roots, cut one of them off, and established they are dried...nothing to speculate about or quantify if the evidence is right infront of your eyes...
 

Herman

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Re: Newly Acquired Japanese Black Pines
« Reply #26 on: November 28, 2012, 03:26 PM »
 Btw I forgot to mention...Nathan, I'd be careful of waving big names around like Ryan's and playing he said...especially if you didn't really understand what he was trying to teach...I emailed him and asked him about cooking roots...he's not really happy about it...his exact words were : no particle size has nothing to do with cooking roots...and offered to join this forum to set the record straight...I told him its not needed to do something as drastic... ::)
 

MatsuBonsai

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Re: Newly Acquired Japanese Black Pines
« Reply #27 on: November 28, 2012, 03:52 PM »
Phew, glad that got cleared up.

So, Tim, how are your trees doing?
 

nathanbs

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Re: Newly Acquired Japanese Black Pines
« Reply #28 on: November 28, 2012, 04:34 PM »
I have a 2 day workshop with Ryan on tuesday and wednesday so I will definitely get to the bottom of the discussion and re-post here. And for the record it was a very specific conversation following his lecture on soil and soil particle size. His words may have been slightly different but that was definitely the overall concern and opinion that he had. Additionally I'm not sure how the soil could be dry when the akadama is still visibly wet. My problem was not the soil drying out, if anything I never let it dry out but that was the case with all my pines. So what was the difference? If the only difference was my particle size and if it didn't dry out then what would your conclusion be?
« Last Edit: November 28, 2012, 04:36 PM by nathanbs »
 

nathanbs

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Re: Newly Acquired Japanese Black Pines
« Reply #29 on: November 28, 2012, 04:56 PM »
Herman I think you will learn that there is not always one right answer to things. Just because that happened to your friends juniper does not mean that is what happened to me.