Author Topic: Newly Acquired Japanese Black Pines  (Read 4629 times)

TimC

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Newly Acquired Japanese Black Pines
« on: November 25, 2012, 07:13 PM »
Just got some black pines, and need to know if I should wait to report.  They are currently in plastic pots which clearly look root bound.  Comments, suggestions?  it is currently in the 60-70's during the day, in in the 40 - 50's during the night here in texas.
 

Jay tupelo

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Re: Newly Acquired Japanese Black Pines
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2012, 07:16 PM »
pictures are the olnly thing that get things stared around here. thats from what i have learned its like fishing you need bate
 

dre

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Re: Newly Acquired Japanese Black Pines
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2012, 08:04 PM »
i say to wait till spring to repot as pines get there strength from there roots and some say it's ok to repot before winter but i've done all my pine repotting in the early to mid spring
 

Dave Murphy

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Re: Newly Acquired Japanese Black Pines
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2012, 08:05 PM »
Where are you in Texas and when does spring typically arrive for you?  The best time to re-pot is typically right as the buds begin to swell, and winter are frosts and freezes are unlikely.  Texas is a big state, so that could be January to April.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2012, 08:06 PM by Dave Murphy »
 

Markyscott

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Re: Newly Acquired Japanese Black Pines
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2012, 11:32 PM »
Here in Houston (zone 9b), January and February are the months that I typically repot black pine.
 

nathanbs

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Re: Newly Acquired Japanese Black Pines
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2012, 12:50 AM »
Believe it or not your Jbp are probably better off in those nursery cans filled with dirt than you think. Unless you've mastered black pines you'll be frustrated to find out that the healthiest you'll see one of your black pines is when you first buy it and it's in one of those cans with dirt. Just don't water it very much. With that said make sure you get your soil mix straightened out and wait until spring. If possible buy/watch Boons video on repotting Jbp in the meantime
 

John Kirby

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Re: Newly Acquired Japanese Black Pines
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2012, 12:10 PM »
Also, in the Houston Bonsai Club there are a number of good people who can help you, lie John Denton and Ron Smith. And, lie Nathan said, Boon's repotting DVD is great.
 

bwaynef

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Re: Newly Acquired Japanese Black Pines
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2012, 01:14 PM »
Believe it or not your Jbp are probably better off in those nursery cans filled with dirt than you think. Unless you've mastered black pines you'll be frustrated to find out that the healthiest you'll see one of your black pines is when you first buy it and it's in one of those cans with dirt.

How so?
 

nathanbs

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Re: Newly Acquired Japanese Black Pines
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2012, 03:37 PM »
i think they tend to be so healthy in a tall can of dirt for two reasons. 1)being from a nursery they dont get watered too much(usually) and 2)i really think JBP like very little airspaces in their soil.(specifically if you live somewhere that can get over mid 90's.) I learned this the hard way as I lost a few really nice trees this year that were in boon mix but 1/4"-1/2" or larger particle size. All of my JBP that were in approx 1/8"-1/4" did just fine. Ryan Neil seemed to think it was due to the roots cooking because there is too much room for vapor. He recommends under 1/4", I think 1/16"-1/8" I will have to check my notes.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2012, 04:14 PM by nathanbs »
 

Herman

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Re: Newly Acquired Japanese Black Pines
« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2012, 04:33 PM »
For roots to cook, won't the temp insode the pot have to be at boiling point? I don't buy that...what can happen is when the air spaces in the soil are too big the roots dry out faster, if fine root hairs dry out completely you can kiss them good bye...I've seen it many times here in the hot african sun, with many species besides pines...if you want to be technical about it. You'd have to work out the atmospheric pressure inside one of those air spaces to calculate boiling point I guess...that's going way too technical...because that would mean the smaller those spaces are the higher the pressdure and the lower boiling point will be,which means the smaller your spaces the more likely your roots will cook...which disproves Ryans hypothesis...like I said...bigger air spaces leads to roots drying out faster and it can also lead to dead spaces in soil, roots can't take up water from air.

Herman
 

Markyscott

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Re: Newly Acquired Japanese Black Pines
« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2012, 07:44 PM »
Anecdotal, I know.  But the summer of 2011 in Houston was the hottest on record with 46 days over 100 degrees including 24 days straight in August.  The average temperature during the month of August was 90.4 degrees - the highest average since records started being kept in 1892.  And it was dry - 2.44" of rain for the summer was the statewide average.  Mostly it was just brutal.  If I go through another summer like that, I'm heading north and won't look back.  But I'm not all that sure the black pines would be as happy about that move as I.  During that summer, my pines were in Boon mix (sieved to the 3/8" - 1/4") fraction and in what passes for full sun in my back yard (about 6hrs in the afternoon and partial shade in the morning and evening).  I had to water 3 times a day, but I can tell you that the pines came through that summer a lot better than I did.  In fact, they grew about as strong as I have ever seen them grow.  One can't make a mistake with the watering under those conditions, but, well-watered black pine in boon mix can definitely thrive in high heat.  It's was me that didn't.
 

nathanbs

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Re: Newly Acquired Japanese Black Pines
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2012, 10:18 PM »
That just makes me go back to the drawing board then. The only difference in my dead trees and living trees was the soil size. Watered them the same, never let them dry out but only needed to water once a day, if anything watered too much as the akadama was never allowed to turn light in color lower than 1" below surface.
 

nathanbs

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Re: Newly Acquired Japanese Black Pines
« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2012, 10:23 PM »
For roots to cook, won't the temp insode the pot have to be at boiling point? I don't buy that...what can happen is when the air spaces in the soil are too big the roots dry out faster, if fine root hairs dry out completely you can kiss them good bye...I've seen it many times here in the hot african sun, with many species besides pines...if you want to be technical about it. You'd have to work out the atmospheric pressure inside one of those air spaces to calculate boiling point I guess...that's going way too technical...because that would mean the smaller those spaces are the higher the pressdure and the lower boiling point will be,which means the smaller your spaces the more likely your roots will cook...which disproves Ryans hypothesis...like I said...bigger air spaces leads to roots drying out faster and it can also lead to dead spaces in soil, roots can't take up water from air.

Herman
You don't think roots can get killed at let's say 150 degrees. If I can cook an egg in an empty pot in the sun then why can't I cook roots in the pot? What you are missing is with smaller soil there is a lot less vapor and more liquid moisture. Does anyone know what boon recommends for particle size? Ryan is super adamant about the particle being smaller than 1/4"
 

Markyscott

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Re: Newly Acquired Japanese Black Pines
« Reply #13 on: November 27, 2012, 12:14 AM »
That just makes me go back to the drawing board then. The only difference in my dead trees and living trees was the soil size. Watered them the same, never let them dry out but only needed to water once a day, if anything watered too much as the akadama was never allowed to turn light in color lower than 1" below surface.

For an inorganic substrate such as boon mix I think it is very difficult to overwater, but it makes it very easy to drought a plant. And a finer grain size definitely improves water retention.  So, if you've found a combination of grain size, substrate composition, and water/fertilizer frequency that works for you, you should stick with it.  I'm just offering the observation that my pines in Houston, with my substrate composition, and my level of watering seemed to fair OK at the miserably high temperatures we saw in 2011. 
 

Herman

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Re: Newly Acquired Japanese Black Pines
« Reply #14 on: November 27, 2012, 01:03 AM »
Because Nathan...a bonsai pot is not a cooking pot, one is metal the other clay and filled with water and soil mix...we get 45 degrees celcius over here...what is 150 degrees in farenheit...100 farenheit is about 36 celcius...thats mild heat around here...