Author Topic: new JBP  (Read 3369 times)

Jason E

  • Sr. Forum Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 269
  • Thanked: 1 times
  • Woodworker, Bonsai Junkie
new JBP
« on: March 07, 2012, 01:04 AM »
Hello all,
Purchased this tree recently thinking to put it in the ground for a while to thicken up the trunk a bit. Was wondering if anyone had any imput on the trunk chop. I left the trunk on above where I plan on choping the tree, removing all side branches to just one leader. Was wondering if I should leave all that on for sacrifice or should remove it now and pick a new sacrifice branch from the new trunk line. Was thinking it might help the taper of the new trunk line to chop now. Any thoughts?

thanks
 

Kajukid

  • Full Forum Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 226
Re: new JBP
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2012, 09:20 AM »
first, before anythin....i would get it out of that soil..put it in pumice, lava rock and akadama...repot it, get it healthy and then later think about doing what your saying...
 

Adair M

  • Hero Forum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 622
  • Thanked: 6 times
Re: new JBP
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2012, 11:07 AM »
It looks like a healthy JBP to me.

I guess a lot depends upon what you want this tree to be.  Do you like trees with fat trunks, and lots of taper?  Or taller, thinner trunked, with open negative space?

Anyway, here's what I see:  I like the nebari.  It could be refined some, there are some crossing roots  you should remove or reposition.  This needs to be done at the next repotting.  But, the nebari is a lot better than most "stock" trees.

Is this a George Muranaka tree?  If so, it's a good variety for bonsai, it will bud back.

Chrisl and I have been having a discussion how to take this kind of stock and developing it from this stage.  I think we've figured out there is no "best" way, but lots of alternatives.  One way would be to let the low branches become sacrifices and thicken the trunk.  Downside, you will have long lasting (if not permanent) scars.  Another is to  let an apex top grow, and cut back.  This process builds taper, but you only get taper from the point of the sacrifice branch down.  On your tree, you have a fairly long section of trunk with minimum taper.  If you choose this method, you would have to do a pretty severe height reduction to get dramatic taper.

Wrestling with these kinds of decisions is what makes bonsai an "art"!  I do think you will have fun developing this pine. As I said, the nebari is very nice.  I'm sure you will get a lot of good suggestions from the members of this board.
 

nathanbs

  • Sr. Forum Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 370
  • Thanked: 2 times
Re: new JBP
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2012, 12:57 PM »
I think Adair makes a really good point about what is your objective. This is always the first question i ask when someone is seeking advice on a pre-bonsai. What is the current trunk diameter?
 

Jason E

  • Sr. Forum Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 269
  • Thanked: 1 times
  • Woodworker, Bonsai Junkie
Re: new JBP
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2012, 05:56 PM »
Thanks Nathan, Adair, Kid,
My goal was to try to keep it as short as possible styled as an informal upright. I was planning on cutting the trunk where marked, this leaves some good branches to work with in the future but does leave a relativly long trunk section with little taper.
the diameter of trunk is 1.5 inches now. where i've marked to cut is about 8 inches above soil level. Would love to chop lower to build more taper but where i marked looks like it might be my best option w/ this tree.
thanks again
 

Jason E

  • Sr. Forum Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 269
  • Thanked: 1 times
  • Woodworker, Bonsai Junkie
Re: new JBP
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2012, 06:00 PM »
Oh and I purchased this tree from a local bonsai nursery in seattle about 6 weeks ago
 

nathanbs

  • Sr. Forum Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 370
  • Thanked: 2 times
Re: new JBP
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2012, 08:47 PM »
are you ok with the trunk diameter being 1.5" on the finished tree? Sorry forgot to ask, how tall do you invision the finished tree being? By the way with a trunk diameter of about 1.5" I dont think the tree should be much taller than 8-9" total. With that being said you will likely need to chop much lower than the mark you selected in order to have some taper which is pretty important for your informal upright tree to look its best. I would say look at your number 3 or number 4 branch as the new trunk line, wire it into a believable position after chopping your trunk approx. 1" -1.5" above that branch. keep your lowest branch or two as a sacrifice and use the one remaining as your first branch. In my experience i wouldnt recommend doing this at the same time as the repot. separate them by 1 growing season(1 year)
« Last Edit: March 07, 2012, 08:54 PM by nathanbs »
 

Jason E

  • Sr. Forum Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 269
  • Thanked: 1 times
  • Woodworker, Bonsai Junkie
Re: new JBP
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2012, 09:38 PM »
thanks nathan,
I was hoping to get a little more size out of the trunk, thinking about putting it back in the ground for a couple of years. I like the idea of cutting it back lower to say the 3rd or fourth branch but am concerned about the space between 1rst branch and new leader. might be better to have a taller finished tree to utilize some of the well placed branches and buds that have formed on the trunk? probabally put in the ground, let it get established and work on it a bit there.
thanks, jason
 

nathanbs

  • Sr. Forum Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 370
  • Thanked: 2 times
Re: new JBP
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2012, 10:03 AM »
i didnt realize that there were only two branches down there by themselves. 2 options as i see it. lowest branch on left=sacrifice, will give you more trunk thickness, 2nd branch on right, pull up to be new trunk, all of your branches will eventually come off of this guy. chop trunk 1-1.5" above 2nd branch.(a little late this year though, maybe wait until next winter)After chopping i will bet that you will get several more buds breaking below chop. keep them if they are below 2nd branch(new leader) but be careful not to get too many as its easy to ge carried away with too many sacrifice branches at once. Second option, put into ground, but remove some of the branches between the leader and your #2 branch as they will shade out the lower branches, the only purpose for this is to allow the trunk to get a little thicker(maybe 2"-2.5") then chop off its head and do as we already discussed. Allowing the leader to grow will not give you any taper just a fatter cylinder(think soda can) and a bigger scar. Still allow the #1 branch to be sacrifice and still start grooming #2 branch to be you future tree
« Last Edit: March 08, 2012, 10:06 AM by nathanbs »
 

nathanbs

  • Sr. Forum Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 370
  • Thanked: 2 times
Re: new JBP
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2012, 02:45 PM »
when i said "all of the branches will come off of this guy" i am referring to all of your branches will grow out of this new leader, not saying that you should remove all of the branches off of it. :)
 

Jason E

  • Sr. Forum Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 269
  • Thanked: 1 times
  • Woodworker, Bonsai Junkie
Re: new JBP
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2012, 07:57 PM »
Thanks Nathan!
I think that I'm going to do the low chop :)  I think I'll probabally get the best tree this way. Pretty exited to start a shorty!
You really think it's to late to chop this year? temps are still pretty cold around here, buds are swelling on my decidious trees though.
 

Adair M

  • Hero Forum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 622
  • Thanked: 6 times
Re: new JBP
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2012, 08:53 PM »
If you are going to do the low chop...

Why not use the opportunity to learn a new technique?  Like air layering!

Figure out where you were going to chop, and try doing an air layer there.  You'll cut it off at that spot anyway, if/when the airlayer produces roots.  And if the airlayer doesn't work, well, you still have your "chopped" tree.  If it does, now you have two trees!

Just a thought.
 

Jason E

  • Sr. Forum Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 269
  • Thanked: 1 times
  • Woodworker, Bonsai Junkie
Re: new JBP
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2012, 09:00 PM »
I haven't heard of air layering pines, ever had any luck with them?
I suppose it couldn't hurt to try.
thanks
 

John Kirby

  • Hero Forum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2216
  • Thanked: 16 times
  • I really need an opposable thumb...
Re: new JBP
« Reply #13 on: March 09, 2012, 09:22 AM »
Just cut it shorter and move on. Nice young tree. Work the roots and you will get a very fine nebari.
 

nathanbs

  • Sr. Forum Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 370
  • Thanked: 2 times
Re: new JBP
« Reply #14 on: March 09, 2012, 09:59 AM »
if the air layer would be successful it would take 2 years. and you just air-layered a fairly nothing tree out of the top of this tree. George Murananka is successful on air-layering the vigorous growth shoot growing out of the top of the tree. you could chop it now just give yourself maybe 2" extra wood above your 2nd branch. Put putty over the end of the cut if you have it or wood glue or something.