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Author Topic: new black pine repotted at last  (Read 3367 times)
Dirk
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« on: May 28, 2013, 02:15 PM »

The buds on my new black pine had finally elongated far enough to find me the courage to repot this little black pine.
It was still in 100% organic nursery soil, that just never wanted to dry out.

I found the roots in a poor condition: Lots of black, dead roots and not a single white tip on any of the roots.
I did not prune and I did not bare root the tree. Just removed all the soil that came out easy, teasing with my tweezers.

Repotted it in a similar pond basket and a mixture of akadama, pumice and lava. (and just a little composted pine bark)
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Chrisl
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« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2013, 04:44 PM »

Looks much happier Wink  Nice beginning.
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Kajukid
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« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2013, 10:26 AM »

Nice. I would tilt the tree to the left some. But nice start.
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Dirk
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« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2013, 09:46 AM »

Hi All,

It looked so happy after repotting.
Now it  barely has new needles. The buds did not develop into candles: It just grew needles.

Must have been repotting stress.
Will have to wait for next year, see how it develops than. For now I won't do anything!

Dirk
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0soyoung
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« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2013, 11:17 AM »

It looks to me that you produced a very short internode by repotting. Usually the tree is not fed until after the needles have hardened to achieve the same end. Very interesting!
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Adair M
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« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2013, 11:26 AM »

Dirk,

I clearly see candles.  On both your before repotting pictures, and after repotting.

Maybe you are unfamiliar with the term, "candles"?

See Jonas's blog: www.bonsaitonight.com.  Over the past couple of months he has published extensive photographs of candles and decandling techniques.

In my opinion, you repotted very late in the growing season.  You are supposed to repot before the candles have extended like they have in your first post. 

(I am thinking that you thought the emerging needles on the candles were buds and when in fact they are needles.) 
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Dirk
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« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2013, 12:03 PM »

Adair,

Normally buds extent to candles. Needles become visible along the length of the candle and start to grow.
This was different. Buds extended very late because of the weather this spring and because the tree didnt become active untill the end of may it was repotted so late. After repotting for a long time nothing happend. Until suddenly these needles appeard. No soft new needles, bud they seemed hard and mature needles.
Anyway, the roots didn't look to good so I allready decided to leave it alone this year.

Dirk
« Last Edit: July 22, 2013, 12:16 PM by Dirk » Logged

Adair M
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« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2013, 03:08 PM »

Dirk, is English a second language?  If so, that's probably why we are miscommunicating.

On Post #3, the second picture, you show a candle with new needles.  The "candle" looks like it was maybe 4 or 5 centimeters long.  There is one centimeter from where it starts to emerge from last year's growth before the needles start.  That part has no buds.  We call that portion of the candle the "neck".  Then you have the needles.  If you look at the very tip end, you will see a pointed structure, it will eventually turn white as it matures.  That is a bud.  They vary in size, but they will probably grow to be about 3/4 of a centimeter before it goes dormant for the winter.

Next spring, the buds will begin to swell, and grow longer.  Just as the buds are beginning to swell, or even just before they do is the proper time to repot.  It is better to repot too early than too late.  As the buds swell, they  get longer.  Some can become very long 10 to 20 centimeter, some less strong may stay very short, less than a centimeter.  If they come from a bud at the end of a shoot, we call the growth a "candle".

Your tree had many candles.  In your first post, I can see several candles, and they appear to be about 3 centimeters long.  That is really too late to repot.  It appears the tree survived, so it's ok.  When the candles stop getting longer, that is when the needles emerge from the candles.

Your first post shows candles that have extended and are ready to begin produce needles. 

Your JBP looks perfectly normal to me.  You may have set it back a little by repotting late, but it appears normal.
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Dirk
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« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2013, 05:08 PM »

Adair,
What you are saying is that though small the candles look allright?
I expected them to be more vigorous.
About the late repot: we had frosts in april. By the beginning of may still nothing had happend with this tree.
I'm allways advised not to repot to soon, but after the tree starts to grow.
Usually there are white tips on the roots, showing that the roots grow. There weren't any when I repotted this.
I'm very glad that you are convinced that my tree is oke. I lost one last year due to repotting to early. I repotted in march and had severe frosts after that.
Btw I do know what buds look like and what candles look like. I know what the neck of the shoot is and how to decandle.
It was just so very slow and not developing the way I expected.
Thanks for your comments.

Gr.
Dirk
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Adair M
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« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2013, 05:44 PM »

Dirk, I think your candles were weaker than you expected, but they are fine. It is always good to keep the tree out of freezing weather after a repot.

I think the reason the candles were weak is the original soil was too organic. JBP grow best in inorganic soil. They also like to be kept on the dry side. Organic soil usually keeps the roots too wet which can cause them to rot. As evidenced by the black roots you found.

The combination of the new soil you used and the colander you potted in should be much better.

Fertilize well this fall until it goes dormant. Fertilize again next spring and you should see strong growth. Do not repot next spring.

Good luck, the tree looks great!
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Dirk
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« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2013, 11:11 PM »

Thanks
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Dirk
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« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2014, 09:14 AM »

Dispite of all the confusion about candling or not I decided to post a follow up on my small black pine.
Think it's as healthy as could be and  candled good.
Next spring I'll repot it (slippot) it into a Slightly bigger pond basket. It's now in an 8 in basket, it's going into a 10 in basket.
It may grow out for another two growing seasons before it will get its first styling.
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Adair M
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« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2014, 10:05 AM »

Wow!

Dirk, the tree is super healthy now!  Your potting job really worked!

What are your goals for this tree?  Are you trying to grow it out for a larger size and thick trunk?  Or do you want to keep it the size it is and start ramification?  (Building lots of twigs )

Your what steps you take next depend upon what goals you have for the tree.
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Dirk
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« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2014, 01:08 PM »

Adair,
I plan on thickening  the trunk for the next two years. Above the soil it's about 1.5 in just below the soil it's little over two inch.
I'd like to ad at least half an inch to the trunk.
After that I'll cut back to a total hight of little over 9 inch.

Maybe I'll slip-pot by the end of this month all ready.  So roots can recover and give a better start next year.
Btw,  the curves in the trunk may not be visible non the picture but are there all ready.
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Adair M
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« Reply #14 on: August 09, 2014, 02:13 PM »

Dirk,

I'm really not a fan of "slip potting".

If you're going to repot next year, I would do what Boon calls a "half bare root" repot. You got rid of a lot of the old soil last time, but not all of it. It will take two more repottings to remove it all.

It looks like when you did your previous repot, you left a lot of roots growing on the bottom of the root ball.

A better technique is to have the bottom of the root ball be flat. Large roots growing straight down should be cut back.

The idea is to encourage the radial roots growing out from the base to grow, but suppress those growing down. Growing out the radial roots will thicken the nebari, and thicken the lower trunk.

So, step one, make the root ball shallower, bottom flat, no roots sticking down out of the flat root ball.

Step 2 is to look at the root ball, and determine which half has the weakest roots. And bare root the weak half. It could be the front, back, right or left. Choose a "half" and use bent tip tweezers and root hook to remove all the soil, all the up under the base of the trunk.  Gently wash off soil you can't get off with tweezers.

Then pot back up in the colander.

Two years later, do the other half.
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