Author Topic: JBP Seed, where to get good quality?  (Read 3094 times)

Yenling83

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JBP Seed, where to get good quality?
« on: November 28, 2010, 09:49 PM »
I know of a few people that sell Black Pine seed, but don't know if it's from a good mother tree?  I know that seed are not as identical to the mother tree as cuttings, however I'd like to purchase some seed from nice mother trees.  Anyone know a good source? 

Thanks
 

akeppler

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Re: JBP Seed, where to get good quality?
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2010, 11:42 PM »
Since I have no idea about any of these questions, I might throw them back at you for clarification.

 
Let us consider the best parent tree growing on some slope in Japan with craggy bark, short needles and beautiful needle color. The seeds are gathered and shipped to you. They are planted and the pine produced looks just like the trees at home depot for $20.00. What went wrong?
 

John Kirby

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Re: JBP Seed, where to get good quality?
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2010, 06:59 AM »
The joys of genetic recombination and the ensuing diversity of new combinations.

The problem is, unless you force the tree to self or to pollinate with pollen from a specific male flower, then you never know who the daddy is. Thus, while you might have a stunning tree bearing the cone, the other half could be a dog. You can go through the effort of setting up a selfing or bringing pollen in from a specific tree to produce selected progeny who you would then need to further select for the attributes that you are interested in, or you could just buy JBP seed (treeshrubseeds.com) and select from large numbers for the attributes that you seek.

John
 

tanlu

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Re: JBP Seed, where to get good quality?
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2010, 03:07 PM »
Visit adamsbonsai.com and contact the owner, Julian Adams. He a great guy and has 30 years plus experience growing JBP and JWP from seed that he purchases at various Bonsai gardens in Japan. Definitely worth the shot.
 

Yenling83

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Re: JBP Seed, where to get good quality?
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2010, 05:11 PM »
Makes sense.  Good replys from everyone.  I believe I understand your points and they make sense.   

Al-several things went wrong including incorrect growing technique esp in forming the Nebari and seed is not like cutting- just like some people look like their parents and some don't.   

Thanks! 
 

Yenling83

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Re: JBP Seed, where to get good quality?
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2010, 05:59 PM »
Both of those look like great links by the way, thanks!!!
 

John Kirby

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Re: JBP Seed, where to get good quality?
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2010, 06:13 PM »
Ynling, if you are going to make good pine bonsai, the seedling must be made in to a cutting.
 

akeppler

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Re: JBP Seed, where to get good quality?
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2010, 07:08 PM »
I know of a few people that sell Black Pine seed, but don't know if it's from a good mother tree?  I know that seed are not as identical to the mother tree as cuttings, however I'd like to purchase some seed from nice mother trees.  Anyone know a good source? 

Thanks

Your opening question reads like a question from Jack and the Beanstalk. What constitutes a nice mother tree? If it were possible to get some seed from Kunio Kobayashi, do you think that somehow the material grown from them would be superior to seeds from another source?

In my opinion, if you can grow really exceptional black pine material from seed, it's source is not that important. Bark quality, and needle length can be controlled. Really nice bark only comes with age and growing conditions, which are not always conducive to pot culture.
 

Yenling83

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Re: JBP Seed, where to get good quality?
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2010, 07:12 PM »
Ynling, if you are going to make good pine bonsai, the seedling must be made in to a cutting.

Yup I know, Boon says this every time someone asks about it. I also have the pine book, which describes the process.
 

Yenling83

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Re: JBP Seed, where to get good quality?
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2010, 07:19 PM »
I know of a few people that sell Black Pine seed, but don't know if it's from a good mother tree?  I know that seed are not as identical to the mother tree as cuttings, however I'd like to purchase some seed from nice mother trees.  Anyone know a good source? 

Thanks

Your opening question reads like a question from Jack and the Beanstalk. What constitutes a nice mother tree? If it were possible to get some seed from Kunio Kobayashi, do you think that somehow the material grown from them would be superior to seeds from another source?

In my opinion, if you can grow really exceptional black pine material from seed, it's source is not that important. Bark quality, and needle length can be controlled. Really nice bark only comes with age and growing conditions, which are not always conducive to pot culture.

Yah, I should have added more detail and got more specific with my question.    If I got seed from Kobayashi, I was not sure if that would be better, worse or if it did not matter compared with seed from another source?  that should have been my main question.  The response I got from you and John is basically that it would not matter and it's more about proper growing technique and weeding out trees that have poor characteristics.     
 

John Kirby

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Re: JBP Seed, where to get good quality?
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2010, 07:59 PM »
You pass the class grasshopper.
 

Yenling83

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Re: JBP Seed, where to get good quality?
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2010, 08:15 PM »
You pass the class grasshopper.

Ha ha, thanks John.

By the way. And I forget if I told you this already.  But you are the reason I started studying with Peter Tea and Boon.  You posted a link to Peter Tea's website when he first kicked off his bonsai business saying you had studied along side him in intensive.  I'm sure glad I took your advice and took a lesson!   

If I ever meet you in person I'll have to buy you a drink. 
 

akeppler

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Re: JBP Seed, where to get good quality?
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2010, 10:32 PM »
You pass the class grasshopper.


...and I concur...