Bonsai Study Group Forum

Species Specific => Japanese Black Pine Bonsai Discussion => Topic started by: bwaynef on September 18, 2015, 09:39 AM

Title: Japanese Red Pine buds
Post by: bwaynef on September 18, 2015, 09:39 AM
Can someone show me examples of healthy growth/buds on Japanese Red Pine at this time of year? 

I've (half-bare-root) repotted a tree that was in poor soil (under Boon's supervision) and I'm fertilizing heavily and recently moved all my trees to the absolute sunniest spot I have available.  I'm trying to get this tree as healthy as possible.  I understand what to look for with JBP, but JRP is a new beast.

Can anyone help me out?

Thanks
Title: Re: Japanese Red Pine buds
Post by: bwaynef on September 18, 2015, 09:57 AM
I imagine there's a good bit of carry over from this article:
http://bonsaitonight.com/2015/09/04/good-buds-bad-buds/ (http://bonsaitonight.com/2015/09/04/good-buds-bad-buds/)
Title: Re: Japanese Red Pine buds
Post by: Dirk on September 19, 2015, 12:50 PM
Some pics of one of my red pines.
Buds on red pine are red (ish) pointy and a little fluffy.

I hope this helps.

Dirk
Title: Re: Japanese Red Pine buds
Post by: bwaynef on October 09, 2015, 01:09 PM
Here's a few from mine:
1. bottom
2. lower-middle
3. top
4. bottom-est.
Title: Re: Japanese Red Pine buds
Post by: Dirk on October 10, 2015, 12:00 PM
Today I reduced buds on about 8 Pinus Sylvestris. The buds on your tree look very much li kk e the  buds on P. Sykvestris! The don't look like Red Pine buds to me. They don't look like Black Pine buds either.

If you are sure your tree is Red Pine, (P. Densiflora) I don't think the buds look healthy.
Title: Re: Japanese Red Pine buds
Post by: Brian Van Fleet on October 11, 2015, 07:20 AM
Yours doesn't look very happy.  Maybe with better soil and siting, next year will be better.
Here is a JRP from seed, taken a couple weeks ago.
Title: Re: Japanese Red Pine buds
Post by: Josh on October 11, 2015, 04:52 PM
This is a moderately healthy 25 yo JRP, pictures taken today. Wire removed and candle cut this summer.  If not candle cut, needles would be 4" long, rather than <2" now. Tree could likely use a bit less water and more sun light. Interior of new needles are a bit light.
Title: Re: Japanese Red Pine buds
Post by: Josh on October 11, 2015, 04:54 PM
Sorry, not so good with iPhone posting. Picture rotated, don't know how to fix that.  Maybe I need to take sideways. Anyways, here is the pic of the buds.
Title: Re: Japanese Red Pine buds
Post by: Josh on October 11, 2015, 05:12 PM
I find JRP challenging, but understandable (if you are familiar with JBP) and rewarding. 

Initially, you need to get them healthy.  Good soil, light, and fertilizer.  When healthy, they tend to look like a mop with long needles, which can droop.  You can cut them in winter, if you can't stand it, like I do. 

Once healthy, you can candle cut in summer.  Usually 2 weeks later than JBP.  They respond well to candle cutting, and will back bud more than JBP and produce shorter, and more balanced needles.  Now they are ready to fine wire, and thinning out needles in winter for balance. 

Next spring, some candles may be very long (> 4").  I break these in half, which stops growth.  In late June I will candle cut all but the very weakest candles.  In 2-4 weeks, new candles form, which tend to be more balanced.  After 4 years of this treatment, you have the result in my earlier pictures. 

JRP, as with JBP are a year round project.  Get them strong, first.  Needle thinning, and candle cutting next and in several year cycles you will get a nice result.
Title: Re: Japanese Red Pine buds
Post by: bwaynef on December 09, 2015, 01:27 PM
Any discernible progress?
Title: Re: Japanese Red Pine buds
Post by: bwaynef on December 09, 2015, 01:28 PM
A few more
Title: Re: Japanese Red Pine buds
Post by: MatsuBonsai on December 09, 2015, 03:01 PM
Yup, those are buds. As much light as you can give this winter and fertilize the crap out of it come spring.
Title: Re: Japanese Red Pine buds
Post by: bwaynef on December 09, 2015, 03:03 PM
Think it ought to be repotted in the spring, or leave it be for another year?  (It was half-barerooted this spring w/ Boon at a workshop at the Bonsai Learning Center.)
Title: Re: Japanese Red Pine buds
Post by: MatsuBonsai on December 09, 2015, 03:09 PM
Leave it another year. Half bare root, then the other half at next repotting, typically 2 years.
Title: Re: Japanese Red Pine buds
Post by: Adair M on December 09, 2015, 03:24 PM
Wayne, the color is good. The buds look ok to me.

I take it you didn't decandle last summer?

Let me think... You repotted last year in March, right?  Were the buds moving when you repotted?  If so, that may be why they're a little lethargic. But remember, red pine is not as vigorousyive appriach as black.

Getting the tree is in good soil is important. You want to do that as soon as you can without "rushing" it.

The conservative approach would be to wait a year. If you get strong spring candles, consider decandling in early July. I use July 4th as my tatget date. (I know you'll be too busy making BBQ that day, but that's my day.)

Then do the other 1/2 bare root repot the following year.
Title: Re: Japanese Red Pine buds
Post by: MatsuBonsai on December 09, 2015, 03:31 PM
So, BSG BBQ party at Wayne's?
Title: Re: Japanese Red Pine buds
Post by: augustine on December 10, 2015, 09:36 AM
Does anyone see fungus or insect damage on the needles?

Any need to spray with a dilute solution of lime sulphur? If so, what is your recommended dilution rate? I've heard and used  everything from 1:35 to 1:100.

Augustine
Title: Re: Japanese Red Pine buds
Post by: bwaynef on December 10, 2015, 02:52 PM
Augustine, I don't think there's any insect or fungal damage, BUT there was some damage from leaving it in my SUV one early spring day (w/ the windows down a good way parked in mostly shade).  The damage wasn't there when I put it in that morning and that afternoon when I took it out I noticed it.  Maybe that's what you saw.

I've been fertilizing weekly w/ Miracle Grow (and humic acid when I remember), and the soil is covered with teabags of organic fertilizer as well.  I've seen significant improvement in apparent bud strength since those last photos so I'm hoping that the spring will see good strong growth. 
Title: Re: Japanese Red Pine buds
Post by: EJ on December 11, 2015, 06:16 AM
I have had mixed success with JRP, I purchased 3 seedlings spring of 2014 and 3 spring of 2015.  Out of the 6 total, one has thrived and has had great rate of growth.  The strongest buds are 3/8" and the weakest are 1/4".  It is being grown in a grow box with 4" deep inorganic media, comprised of red lava, pumice, perlite, and charcoal at a ratio of 3:3:1:1.  I also fertilized with a mix of various organic fertilizer in teabags, with alternating weekly addition of humic acid mixed with trace minerals or fish emulsion.  When I moved this seedling in to winter storage I found it had grown a few foot long roots along the underside of the grow box. ?

E