Author Topic: Japanese Black Pine - decandling techniques  (Read 6421 times)

MatsuBonsai

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Japanese Black Pine - decandling techniques
« on: June 12, 2009, 01:42 PM »
Recently I received a request from a friend to better explain decandling techniques.  Below are three different methods used for different purposes.

1) Leave a stub of varying heights depending on strength area/zone for younger, not as developed trees. No stub for weak candles, stub equal to the candle width for medium, and longer stub on strong candles. Leave weakest alone. This produces the 2nd flush at a wider angle, so that's why we don't do it to more developed trees.

2) 10 days method. Mid June (depending on area/climate) take the weaker candles, 10 days later take the medium, 10 days later take the strong. Leave the weakest alone. This is good, if you have the time.

3) For finished trees it's all at once, with additional needle pulling. Leave 5 pairs in strong areas, 7 in medium, 9 in weak areas. Leave all pairs on weakest. For his client trees he can't do 10 days, as he may only be there for a day or two, so this does the same trick with energy balancing.

In late October (again, depending on area/climate) we remove all of last years needles, thin to two buds, perhaps some more trimming and thinning, and some light needle removal. Again, something like 7 pairs in strong areas, 9 in medium, 11 in weak areas. Leave all pairs on weakest. Naturally you might not be able to do this twice a year, so it all depends on what's been done and what needs to be done.

Needles are pulled from the base out, leaving the needles at the tips. This cleans up the appearance and lets light and air into the branch structure to promote back budding. We want adventitious buds, not needle buds, so be sure to remove the sheath.

It's all a matter of energy balance and what's right for the tree at the time.

Usual things apply of course, must be done on a healthy well fed tree, etc.


Further clarification on method #1

Time for some ASCII art.

Strong:

\ /      -----
| | cut   | |
| | here  | | <-- all new candle growth (with a long neck)


Medium:

\ /
| | cut  -----
| | here  | |


Weak:

\ /
| | cut
| | here -----


For Strong you leave a long (green) stub, about 1 1/3 - 1 2/3 the width of the candle. For Medium strength candles leave a stub about the same length as width. For Weak candles cut just about at the base. The extra stub on Strong and Medium will continue to draw energy, retarding the strong/medium growth of the tree, thus giving the weaker growth time to grow out first. Same principle for all #1,2,3. It's all about energy balance.

The new buds will emerge from the base of the new growth, which is why it grows at an odd angle. It has to grow around the stub left.

This is for black pine only (and strong red pine).
« Last Edit: June 12, 2009, 01:58 PM by MatsuBonsai »
 

loopeozzie

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Re: Japanese Black Pine - decandling techniques
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2009, 08:51 AM »
i will read this over and over as i have one and havent touched it. thanks for the post it's very informative i can see where i need to go with mine.
 

rxa

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Re: Japanese Black Pine - decandling techniques
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2010, 06:22 AM »
I'm still trying to get the timing right of this technique, the weather can be sporadic from year to year here in the UK at the moment - I'm sure I've de-candled too late, I have secondary growth which hasn't developed enough to become needles with no sign of next years buds yet. Some areas haven't developed at all, which I'm surprised about as I had such vigorous spring candles this year, hence the decandling.

Can anyone advise me what to expect on my trees in the next year (if anything at all) seasoned with a little advice to bring the back the health? - I'd really appreciate it.


Ross
 

John Kirby

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Re: Japanese Black Pine - decandling techniques
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2010, 09:03 AM »
Leave it alone for now, I am assuming that you have resumed fertilizing the tree at this time. The immature buds should mature over winter. Until you get a really good feel for your trees in your climate, I would remove the spring candles (decandle) JBP in May in the UK- mid to late. Now the really important piece is that you have to have the tree really well fed and strong before decandling.

Post a picture if you can.
 

rxa

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Re: Japanese Black Pine - decandling techniques
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2010, 04:27 PM »
I visited the scene of the crime earlier today, some photographic evidence was recorded..

These are obviously the infrequent secondary candles that have grown, there are plenty of branches that haven't started new growth which is of concern.

I've fed with plenty of Biogold for the majority of the growing season so lack of sustenance shouldn't be an issue. I'll leave well alone as you've recommended and look to next spring to see what happens - I'm hoping for some extreme back budding!
« Last Edit: October 04, 2010, 04:54 PM by rxa »
 

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Re: Japanese Black Pine - decandling techniques
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2010, 04:42 PM »
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John Kirby

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Re: Japanese Black Pine - decandling techniques
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2010, 06:23 PM »
I would go in and pull the dead needles, if you have lot of interior needles, then cut them in half to open the tree up a bit, bit leave the branch ends alone.  John
 

cerovski

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Re: Japanese Black Pine - decandling techniques
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2010, 10:44 PM »
Why are adventitious buds preferable to needle
buds ?
 

John Kirby

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Re: Japanese Black Pine - decandling techniques
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2010, 07:11 AM »
A couple of reasons. First, needle buds tend to be out towards the end of the branch that you are working on, that is where the needles are. Second, when branches grow very strongly there is a long bud free zone (the neck) which will give you longer interval between where buds are located and where they are not found. these long straight, bare, regions are not the best suited for branch development.
 

rxa

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Re: Japanese Black Pine - decandling techniques
« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2013, 08:06 AM »
This years growth (or re-growth) post-decandling was more vigorous than required on a few trees. I think this is probably down to feeding too early after the pruning process.

I am now tempted to prune again down to the required number of needles for each area, obviously removing the new bud at the end of the extension of the new growth.

I read on Jonas's blog about autumn decandling, but in some areas I won't have any green areas to cut back to!

Has anyone gone through something similar? Any recommendations?
 

Gaffer

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Re: Japanese Black Pine - decandling techniques
« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2013, 08:05 PM »
June 12th
Just about tells the storey
Every one  just follow
Qualicum Brian
 

Adair M

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Re: Japanese Black Pine - decandling techniques
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2013, 06:52 PM »
Do not decandle again. You should thin the buds down to two at the end of each twig. So, for example, if after decandling there were 4 new shoots, remove two leaving two. If one of the two you keep us stronger than the other, pull some needles from the base of the stronger one so it matches the weaker one.

Doing this for several years develops ramification and balance.

If you decandle in the fall, you will not have strong spring candles which can be decandled in late spring.
 

bwaynef

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Re: Japanese Black Pine - decandling techniques
« Reply #12 on: November 08, 2013, 09:13 AM »
I read on Jonas's blog about autumn decandling, but in some areas I won't have any green areas to cut back to!

FYI: Jonas is a member here, but I'm not sure how often he checks in.  Maybe send him a PM.

I seem to remember that he failed to do something that the visiting master (Akio?) intended for him to do.  When he was back from Japan, he asked Jonas, why didn't you do (something) during (some season).  Obviously, I don't recall the details, but there's more to it than is obvious ...apparently.  Re-read through Bonsai Tonight or see if you can draw him into posting that info here.