Author Topic: Japanese Black Pine Acidification  (Read 16625 times)

MatsuBonsai

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Re: Japanese Black Pine Acidification
« Reply #30 on: July 21, 2011, 05:14 PM »
Chrisl,

Do you have room to put a hoop house over your bonsai benches?  That's what I've done after seeing the same a number of different places.  Plastic goes up for winter, then down for the growing season.  It has worked well for me so far.  http://bonsaistudygroup.com/general-discussion/plastic-goes-up/

Here's the one I went with, http://www.growerssupply.com/farm/supplies/prod1;gs1_high_tunnels_cold_frames;pg105158f.html
« Last Edit: July 21, 2011, 05:17 PM by MatsuBonsai »
 

Chrisl

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Re: Japanese Black Pine Acidification
« Reply #31 on: July 21, 2011, 07:23 PM »
mcpesq817, Thanks for explaining your fertilization routine.  That helps a lot.  The maples I have, 2 are in the original nursery containers with organic soil.  I'd hate to repot those back into nursery pots using an organic mix now.  The other I have in a 24"x18"x3" flat, half organic/half inorganic.  (I did this before I knew better).  The two organics stay wet for quite awhile since they are in large containers.  The flat also stays wet too long.

Maybe I'll do what Coh/Chris suggested in another thread, take the 2 nursery plants, take them out of their pots, tease out the dead roots, repot in a larger container with a good draining soil.  Then bury the pots in the ground. 

And great to hear you use a variation of Boons mix with success!

John, that's a good suggestion.  I was thinking along similar lines:  http://www.menards.com/main/lawn-garden/greenhouses/flowerhouse-farmhouse-clear-portable-greenhouse/p-1339213-c-10122.htm  $384

I read your thread, and it was discussed that this cold frame wouldn't hold up to high winds and snow.  ( I live by the lake, so high winds are probable, as well, we had 3' of snow last winter.)  Plus, the solid end is just as expensive as the frame, and the actual door is more expensive.  But, I saw where you can buy extra rafters, and purlins.  But the costs are adding up...can you tell me what you bought and how you implemented it?  (I've never been to Ky before, what's winters like there?)

Thank You Guys for all the help!  I can't believe I make so many mistakes this spring.  Live and learn right?  :D
 

MatsuBonsai

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Re: Japanese Black Pine Acidification
« Reply #32 on: July 21, 2011, 07:37 PM »
It needn't be the exact one, that's just what I used. I didn't purchase an end or door, just used some leftover plastic and outdoor plywood. I'm sure you can have success with just about anything similar, as long as it's fastened down properly/solidly.

Winters and wind aren't bad here. As Kirby suggested, extra Perkins and/or thicker pipes should stand up well. I do go out and sweep snow from the plastic.
 

John Kirby

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Re: Japanese Black Pine Acidification
« Reply #33 on: July 21, 2011, 09:23 PM »
purlins, dude, purlins........
 

MatsuBonsai

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Re: Japanese Black Pine Acidification
« Reply #34 on: July 21, 2011, 09:24 PM »
Stupid iPhone auto correct...
 

Chrisl

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Re: Japanese Black Pine Acidification
« Reply #35 on: July 21, 2011, 10:08 PM »
Oh, I see.  That'd save some serious money by doing it yourself on the ends.  It'll come down to what I can fit in the backyard. 
Thanks for telling me about Ky's winters...surprising, I was expecting it was bad there too.  Lucky You John!

And don't you just hate that auto correct sometimes?? LOL
 

Alain Bertrand

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Re: Japanese Black Pine Acidification
« Reply #36 on: July 22, 2011, 02:37 AM »
This now about 10 years that I use only osmocote, that is to say that I am satisfied with it. There is nonetheless a serious drawback with it, which is the fact that increased watering results in dilution of the fertilizer, so when goal is maximum growth of young tree, I have noticed that if performs far better with a fairly large part of organics inside (for me, peat moss) , about 20% for pines, 40-50% for deciduous which in turn  brings some other inconveniences.

If I could, I would switch to fertilizer injectors to get always the same fertilizer concentration regardless of the intensity of watering. BTW, it seems that you can get some fairly cheap in the US, here I haven't seen one under 400 €.
 

Treebeard55

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Re: Japanese Black Pine Acidification
« Reply #37 on: July 22, 2011, 10:37 AM »
Chris,  I also suggest looking around first to see what you already have on hand. After all, the only one who has to be content with how your structure looks is you -- well, and your wife if you're married.  ;)

Stupid iPhone auto correct...

My computer's spell-check gets thoroughly confused at times since, in addition to English, I speak Spanish and bonsai. Must make its motherboard ache!
 

Alain Bertrand

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Re: Japanese Black Pine Acidification
« Reply #38 on: July 22, 2011, 12:02 PM »
This now about 10 years that I use only osmocote,

It seems that I have answered a post on the second page without noticing that discussion had reached page 3.
Sorry.
 

Chrisl

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Re: Japanese Black Pine Acidification
« Reply #39 on: August 05, 2011, 01:16 PM »
Chrisl,

Do you have room to put a hoop house over your bonsai benches?  That's what I've done after seeing the same a number of different places.  Plastic goes up for winter, then down for the growing season.  It has worked well for me so far.  http://bonsaistudygroup.com/general-discussion/plastic-goes-up/

Here's the one I went with, http://www.growerssupply.com/farm/supplies/prod1;gs1_high_tunnels_cold_frames;pg105158f.html

John,  I'm trying to find the room outback, and start on getting a cold frame bought.  I was wondering, do you also use any shade cloth over the cold frame to reduce the heat on sunny winter days?

Thanks!
Chris
 

pwk5017

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Re: Japanese Black Pine Acidification
« Reply #40 on: August 06, 2011, 12:17 AM »
Hi Treebeard,

Not to hijack the thread, but I think it's worth adding more detail on my experience.  I have found the clumping to really only occur when using solid organic fertilizers.  I've gotten the crusty clumping using other soil mixes at the surface, but it doesn't seem as bad as when I used 100% turface where the clumping appears to extend much further down into the pot.  I noticed the issue when I saw that after heavily watering trees that I had in pond baskets, the turface further down in the pot was not changing color in some spots.  If they weren't in pond baskets I would, have assumed that everything was ok because the soil as a whole remained well-draining - it was just that I saw through the holes in the pond basket dry spots here and there lower down into the basket.  I don't get the clumping issue with straight turface when using inorganics (or liquid organics), but then again, I don't get it with other soil mixes using those types of fertilizers either.  

Other than that, I've had very good results with turface.  Put a maple in 100% turface and you'll be amazed at the root system you'll get.  I just caution people that you could end up with dry spots.

For what it's worth, I'm still working through my fertilizer regimen.  I use liquid organics and inorganics once a week, but given that my soil is 100% inorganic, I think it makes sense to have some kind of fertilizer that slowly releases nutrients into the soil with every watering.  I have moved from cakes to Bio-gold and Osmocote, but I'm think of moving to solely using Osmocote and the Miracle Gro solid fertilizer pellets, mostly for cost and convenience reasons.



I stopped using organic cakes because of this reason.  The cakes break down with watering 1-2 times a day and act as portland cement with turface being the aggregate--concrete!  I learned this lesson last summer and stopped using cakes.  I have been using miracle gro and osmocote. I fertilize my pines pretty heavily(soil surface is covered in pellets and double strength miracle growth every friday) and my maples a lil less( not as many pellets and miracle reg strength every 2 weeks) because my maples are in 60:40/70:30 inorganic to organic where as my pines are in 100% inorganic consisting of pumice, turface and perlite.  I have contradictory results from the person who posted "great root systems from maples in 100% turface".  I have maples growing in 100% inorganic right now and I have had many maples grown in 100% inorganic, but they are greatly outperformed in nebari development and overall growth by the maples grow in more organic soils.  Correct me if im wrong, but maples prefer more moisture.  They thrive in temperate deciduous forests, which receive copious amounts of rainfall AND have more loam and clay soils.   
 

Treebeard55

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Re: Japanese Black Pine Acidification
« Reply #41 on: August 06, 2011, 07:31 PM »
I first picked this up from Walter Pall, but I'm sure he's not the first to say it: soil composition, fertilizing practices, and watering practices all interact, so when you adjust one, keep an eye on the others. Then of course, there are the needs/preferences of a given species. (Sort of feels like trying to choreograph a ballet sometimes!)

Pwk5017, you're right about the native habitat of maples.
 

MatsuBonsai

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Re: Japanese Black Pine Acidification
« Reply #42 on: August 07, 2011, 04:23 PM »
John,  I'm trying to find the room outback, and start on getting a cold frame bought.  I was wondering, do you also use any shade cloth over the cold frame to reduce the heat on sunny winter days?

Thanks!
Chris


I don't use shade cloth during winter, I just leave the option to open the ends should it get too warm.

I do hang shade cloth from some of the hoops during summer though.
 

Chrisl

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Re: Japanese Black Pine Acidification
« Reply #43 on: August 07, 2011, 05:06 PM »
I see.  That makes more sense John.  Thank You for the response.  Now at least I know what to do. 
And Thanks Again for the link to growers supply, I never would've found it.
 

John Kirby

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Re: Japanese Black Pine Acidification
« Reply #44 on: August 07, 2011, 11:54 PM »
Pwk5017, add some akadama, it holds more moisture and gives the roots something to colonize. See Ebihara's trees if you want to see what maples can do in100% inorganic with organic fertlizer cakes.