Author Topic: Growing Mikawa Japanese Black Pine from Seed  (Read 50679 times)

Buffrider

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Re: Growing Mikawa Japanese Black Pine from Seed
« Reply #45 on: July 04, 2011, 06:26 PM »
well i made my cutting seedlings up today. I went everywhere and couldnt find any of these for the mix. I have haydite on call so i got some of that mixed with a soil mix that my bonsai club uses and put the wholes for the small sand and put them in with root hormone. Now to wait...... they are in mostly shade except for evening sun, cant get full shade where im at. ill post pictures up later of them.

Where else can i get pumice? The Dry-stall isnt sold anywhere in oklahoma so cant get that. 
 

pwk5017

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Re: Growing Mikawa Japanese Black Pine from Seed
« Reply #46 on: July 12, 2011, 02:17 AM »
Hey everyone,

I hope I am not clogging the thread by making a large post, but I thought I would share my results from performing the seedling cutting procedure and get some feedback on my own pines from seed.  While re-sizing the photos, I noticed I was not as careful about composition/shooting angle when I took the pics as I should have been(a viscous storm was moving in as I was snapping pics and is currently raging right now). Some of the pines' leaders blend into other pine foilage in the background, but I think they are good enough to get the message across. I am somewhat new to growing pine bonsai, so if anyone has some ideas or suggestions, feel free to give them.

Pine 1 is 3-4 years old and was not grown as a cutting. A little luck and some root pruning through the years have begun the beginnings of a nice base/nebari on this young pine. This pine was not repotted this spring, so I couldnt scratch away anymore soil than that to reveal more of the roots. Basically, everything with the white/reflective flakes on it is solid roots. I am aiming for a 8-10" final tree for this one. I think it is 20"+ right now.

Pine 2 is the same age as pine one. The nebari isnt excellent on this one, but its not poor either. A couple more seasons of root pruning should yield excellent results. I am fortunate enough to have a series of weak buds about 1/2" away from the nebari. I hope to encourage some vigor into those buds in the next several years so I can use them as sacrifice branches to achieve an excellent base. Aiming for a finished tree of 10" on this one as well. If you look 2-3" above the small buds at the base, you can see the first whorl of needles. I have several young buds in that mess that will become the new leader/trunk. I am hopeful that this tree will have some powerful movement and taper in another 5-8 years.

Pine 3 is one year younger I believe. I dont know why I didnt take a front view of this tree, but perhaps the topview is more telling. Nebari is developing decently on this one, but is far from perfect. I plan to use the weaker bud on the right as the new trunk line. I might use the other weak bud as a branch, but this tree is offering some buds lower that might be in better positions to be final branches. The base shot is sort of interesting, because you can see how I have 7 buds coming off the trunk where no living needles exist. You can see the dead 1st year needles still hanging off the trunk. I am not sure what caused these buds to appear as the tree has never been pruned, but I am attributing it to repotting this spring and vigorous feeding. Doesnt hurt to be a little lucky in this hobby either.

Pine 4 is the same age as 1 & 2. You can see the final remnants of trunk scarring from wiring in year 2. I let the wire bite in deep on this particular seedling and it has the thickest trunk out of all my seedlings. This was one of the first pine seedlings I wired, so I bent and twisted it severely. I wasnt sure it was going to make it, because the cambium had been cracked in many places along the trunk. However, I was curious in learning the extremes of wiring without raffia, so even if it died, it would have been worth the education. Like pine 3, it has produced needle buds where no living needles exist or have existed for a year. With the current trunk movement, I am hoping for a bud to occur in the first whorl of needles, so I can have a new leader/trunk section. This tree will most likely be in the 6-8" range and be a squashed and twisted shohin.

Pine 5 is in its second year. This pine was not a seedling cutting. I did about half and half last year using the seedling cutting process. This seedling wasnt showing me much potential, so I experimented with topping/decandling it this spring. It had a 6" strong candle and a 2" weaker candle originating from the same whorl. I was curious to see how the seedling would respond. I have to say, it didnt give me the results I had hoped for. I was hoping for buds to appear all along the trunk-- base to top. It only produced buds from the weak shoots up to the point where it was cut. I havent counted the buds, but I can estimate somewhere around 20 have appeared. The advantageous buds at the base of the candles number somewhere in the 10+ neighborhood. The topview photo shows the candle stub leftover and out of focus in a sea of buds. You can form your own conclusion on if its a good idea to lose almost a year's worth of thickening to receive an unlimited choice of branch/future leader choices. Brent does stress the importance of lower buds for branch and sacrifice branches, so decandling/topping certainly can be an effective method of achieving that. I want to see the results of fall pruning before I approve of spring pruning.

Finally, I thought I would include some photos of this year's crop. I have about 300 rooted seedling cuttings. I cut the roots the first week of June. Growing from seed this spring has been slow and full of failure due to the very cool and rainy spring. Anyways, you can see the results of the procedure a month later. I randomly plucked this one up for a photo and you can see how effective the technique is. I have 5-6 roots issuing from exactly the same point on the trunk. If only I had consistently performed this task over the last 4 years...life would be so much easier.
 

pwk5017

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Re: Growing Mikawa Japanese Black Pine from Seed
« Reply #47 on: July 12, 2011, 02:18 AM »
4 more photos
 

pwk5017

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Re: Growing Mikawa Japanese Black Pine from Seed
« Reply #48 on: July 12, 2011, 02:21 AM »
Final batch. 
 

Kajukid

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Re: Growing Mikawa Japanese Black Pine from Seed
« Reply #49 on: September 30, 2011, 10:51 AM »
When is the best time to grown pines from seeds? Like what month?
 

bwaynef

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Re: Growing Mikawa Japanese Black Pine from Seed
« Reply #50 on: September 30, 2011, 11:10 AM »
Generally, they're stratified such that they're sprouting in time for you to be able to provide them with a frost-free environment outside in the spring.

...so as early in the year as you can get them out without risking a freeze.
 

cray13

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Re: Growing Mikawa Japanese Black Pine from Seed
« Reply #51 on: September 30, 2011, 11:16 AM »
When is the best time to grown pines from seeds? Like what month?

Of course it depends on your climate.

In North Carolina... zone 7a/7b

I order my seed at the end of February and try to sow by the second or third week of March.  This means they emerge around the first week of April...

Just like bwaynef said... "as early as you can get them out without risking a freeze"

Here in NC by Mid-April our chance of a frost are nil.  If a frost is forecast, I just bring my seed trays in my garage for the night to protect them.
 

Kajukid

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Re: Growing Mikawa Japanese Black Pine from Seed
« Reply #52 on: September 30, 2011, 11:23 AM »
Okay thanks. Oh and what's a good website to get seeds from. I found a couple but I don't want to get some seeds and they all float when I soak them in water. You know what I mean?
 

bwaynef

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Re: Growing Mikawa Japanese Black Pine from Seed
« Reply #53 on: September 30, 2011, 01:18 PM »
I've dealt with Misho Bonsai, Sheffields, and ebay.  I have had some problems maneuvering Misho's site the last time I tried.  Other than that, I wouldn't have a problem recommending any of them.
 

cray13

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Re: Growing Mikawa Japanese Black Pine from Seed
« Reply #54 on: September 30, 2011, 02:02 PM »
I've dealt with Misho Bonsai, Sheffields, and ebay.  I have had some problems maneuvering Misho's site the last time I tried.  Other than that, I wouldn't have a problem recommending any of them.

I've been using Misho for the last four years with great results, but last year I had trouble with their website as well and couldn't get my order through.  I believe Misho just changed owners and the website it back up and running well now.  The new owner stated the seed source would remain the same, so I plan to use Misho again this spring.
 

Kajukid

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Re: Growing Mikawa Japanese Black Pine from Seed
« Reply #55 on: September 30, 2011, 06:25 PM »
Do u know if JWP can be done the same(growing from seed) or different? Has anyone tryed to grown red pine from seed too?
 

tmmason10

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Re: Growing Mikawa Japanese Black Pine from Seed
« Reply #56 on: May 17, 2012, 11:58 PM »
I've gotten som seeds to pop by following these instructions. Thanks for the great original post!
 

pwk5017

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Re: Growing Mikawa Japanese Black Pine from Seed
« Reply #57 on: May 18, 2012, 10:47 PM »
I have grown JRP the same exact way you grow JBP.  They respond well to the cutting technique.  However, I will note that I have had greater trouble with damping off with the JRP.  You def want to use a fungicide with them, or expect a 30% die off.
 

cray13

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Re: Growing Mikawa Japanese Black Pine from Seed
« Reply #58 on: May 23, 2012, 01:54 PM »
Along with last year's batch of Japanese Black Pine I performed this same technique on Mugo Pine.  The little Mugo's seemed to have taken longer to recover from the initial root pruning and I wasn't sure they were going to survive the winter. 

However, this spring they've really taken off and are doing quite well.

So, from previous posts it seems like we've had success using this technique now with JBP, Japanese Red Pine and Mugo.

Great Stuff.
 

pwk5017

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Re: Growing Mikawa Japanese Black Pine from Seed
« Reply #59 on: May 23, 2012, 09:57 PM »
I know I have seen several people online do it to scots pine, so you can add that to the list. 

Where do you get your seeds for mugos?  I have never considered growing that species from seed, but I have two shohin mugos that I am refining the branching on now, and it is an attractive pine.  The more and more I work on them, the more I am attracted to their foliage.  They are the poor man's white pine.  I wonder how long it would take to produce a decent tree. My JBPs are producing 12+" candles.  Both of my mugos have 1-2" candles.  Might be best to keep an eye out for decent nursery stock.