Bonsai Study Group Forum

Species Specific => Japanese Black Pine Bonsai Discussion => Topic started by: Kajukid on September 07, 2011, 03:54 PM

Title: Grafting jbp question
Post by: Kajukid on September 07, 2011, 03:54 PM
i have a question about grafting...what time of the year is it good to do a graft?? i have this JBP that i want to graft a couple of scions to it...thanks for your help...
Title: Re: Grafting jbp question
Post by: MatsuBonsai on September 07, 2011, 03:59 PM
What is the end result you're looking for?  Why are you grafting?  Are you replacing all foliage?  Adding a branch?  Grafting for roots?

There are a few ways to graft JBP, some of which have threads here.  Depending on the type of graft performed, for the most part it's best done in late Winter or early Spring.
Title: Re: Grafting jbp question
Post by: Kajukid on September 07, 2011, 05:41 PM
well i want it to be Informal Upright...but FIRST i want to get the tree as healthy as i can be for i do the grafting...i want to graft branches to it...as u can see in the pic there is a big gap from the first branches to the top...i want to graft a couple of scions to it so it will have more branches to...the ones in the blue are what i want to do...the red mark, i dont know what to do with it...should i just cut it off?? theres no needles on it...
Title: Re: Grafting jbp question
Post by: garywood on September 07, 2011, 06:31 PM
Kid, I think you are trying to make it much to complicated. Wire the left branch up a little and then where the secondary branch is put a little more movement in it. Wire the right branch down a little and keep it under control. Use the upper part for sacrifice. There is time to do this for the next couple of years so feed it very aggressively. The tree is young and needs growth so don't do anymore than necessary to slow growth.
Wood
http://thingsofwood-gary.blogspot.com/ (http://thingsofwood-gary.blogspot.com/)
Title: Re: Grafting jbp question
Post by: MatsuBonsai on September 07, 2011, 07:10 PM
Material this young shouldn't require grafting, unless you were trying to graft a unique cultivar.  Feed and water and you should get plenty of back budding.  Leaving more growth on now will also help thicken the trunk.

You'll want to sort out the roots over the next few years as well.
Title: Re: Grafting jbp question
Post by: Kajukid on September 07, 2011, 07:21 PM
Okay. So do u think I should wire it now? I was kinda thinking about growing this pine along with 2 others in the ground but I don't know what kind of soil I should use. What do u think? Grow it in the pot or the ground. I want to thicken up the trunk and get some height
Title: Re: Grafting jbp question
Post by: jferrier on September 07, 2011, 07:34 PM
Wondering about grafting JBP myself when the right time comes round. Will try to get a pic of tree up tomorrow. My tree is about 2.5-3" at base and I have a  branch thats about 1/2 thick that forks into two long gangly branches that need shortening. I feel like they are too long to try and wire without looking odd and not likely to back bud that far back, so I wanted to graft a potted seedling. The seedling is about the same width as the two long branches. I'm trying to decide whether to graft onto the bottom of one of the long branches or the top, or trying to notch between the branches in the middle of the two. I'm thinking the notch would not likely take and think maybe grafting underneath a long branch would look best. Any thoughts?
Title: Re: Grafting jbp question
Post by: jferrier on September 07, 2011, 07:36 PM
Okay. So do u think I should wire it now? I was kinda thinking about growing this pine along with 2 others in the ground but I don't know what kind of soil I should use. What do u think? Grow it in the pot or the ground. I want to thicken up the trunk and get some height

It will thicken much faster in the ground.
Title: Re: Grafting jbp question
Post by: Kajukid on September 07, 2011, 07:48 PM
okay so what type of soil should i use?
Title: Re: Grafting jbp question
Post by: Chrisl on September 07, 2011, 08:09 PM
Kajukid, I've been told to use well draining soil so you can feed and water aggressively.  So use something like Turface, diatomaceous earth.  Something that's affordable and available.  Just my opinion.... ;)
Title: Re: Grafting jbp question
Post by: nathanbs on September 08, 2011, 10:10 AM
Wondering about grafting JBP myself when the right time comes round. Will try to get a pic of tree up tomorrow. My tree is about 2.5-3" at base and I have a  branch thats about 1/2 thick that forks into two long gangly branches that need shortening. I feel like they are too long to try and wire without looking odd and not likely to back bud that far back, so I wanted to graft a potted seedling. The seedling is about the same width as the two long branches. I'm trying to decide whether to graft onto the bottom of one of the long branches or the top, or trying to notch between the branches in the middle of the two. I'm thinking the notch would not likely take and think maybe grafting underneath a long branch would look best. Any thoughts?

Depending on how old the tree is you'd be surprised how far back on that branch it will back bud. Follow a strict candle pruning technique combined with heavy feeding, at the right time of year of course and i bet you will see back budding on that branch
Title: Re: Grafting jbp question
Post by: Kajukid on September 08, 2011, 10:47 AM
thanks for all the help everybody...
Title: Re: Grafting jbp question
Post by: jferrier on September 08, 2011, 05:18 PM
Wondering about grafting JBP myself when the right time comes round. Will try to get a pic of tree up tomorrow. My tree is about 2.5-3" at base and I have a  branch thats about 1/2 thick that forks into two long gangly branches that need shortening. I feel like they are too long to try and wire without looking odd and not likely to back bud that far back, so I wanted to graft a potted seedling. The seedling is about the same width as the two long branches. I'm trying to decide whether to graft onto the bottom of one of the long branches or the top, or trying to notch between the branches in the middle of the two. I'm thinking the notch would not likely take and think maybe grafting underneath a long branch would look best. Any thoughts?

Depending on how old the tree is you'd be surprised how far back on that branch it will back bud. Follow a strict candle pruning technique combined with heavy feeding, at the right time of year of course and i bet you will see back budding on that branch

Not sure on the age. I suppose I could try to get some backbudding first. The branches are about 1/4" thick and the needles start about 6 or 7 inches from the fork. Can't find my pictures.