Author Topic: First wiring - Japanese Black Pine  (Read 8092 times)

MatsuBonsai

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First wiring - Japanese Black Pine
« on: November 21, 2010, 10:42 AM »
I wired this one up at the Ted Matson Cincinnati Advanced Study Group last weekend.  I'm not sure I've shown this one here before.  I'll see if I can find some earlier photos as I neglected to take and before pictures.

Thoughts?

sorry about the dirty pot
 

bonsaikc

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Re: First wiring - Japanese Black Pine
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2011, 11:26 AM »
I really like where you are going with this one. How long have you had it?
 

MatsuBonsai

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Re: First wiring - Japanese Black Pine
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2011, 02:06 PM »
I got this one from John Kirby in 2 or 3 years ago, I think.  I hadn't really done much to it except repot until this first wiring.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2011, 02:12 PM by MatsuBonsai »
 

bwaynef

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Re: First wiring - Japanese Black Pine
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2011, 03:39 PM »
What's at the base on the left?  Have any plans for dealing with it?
 

MatsuBonsai

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Re: First wiring - Japanese Black Pine
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2011, 04:00 PM »
A massive bulge of roots.  Nothing to be done but develop better nebari around it.
 

John Kirby

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Re: First wiring - Japanese Black Pine
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2011, 07:43 PM »
I think it was in 07. It should pop back pretty well now that it is wired and become more compact. I thought it had better roots, but it was field grown for a number of years and it did end up with pretty good taper. hopefully you can get it down to a reasonable nebari.

Nice job. I am at ORD waiting for the Boon Express to SFO- repottin time.
 

MatsuBonsai

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Re: First wiring - Japanese Black Pine
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2011, 08:10 PM »
I'm pretty sure I can work with the roots as they are.  It's certainly unique.  It's already starting to pop back pretty good.  Another few years and it should look quite good, I would think.
 

John Kirby

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Re: First wiring - Japanese Black Pine
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2011, 09:19 PM »
I agree. It also seems to be getting good bark in the container, an advantage to living in the semi humid mid south. Nice work with Ted, a truly genuime and talented person.
John
 

donmaple

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great pine
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2011, 10:22 AM »
John, great tree! With the great looking old bark, all the branching to work with and the nice movement I am sure you will find a way to resolve the root issue. Though it does not seem to bother me as much as most. It is inspiring to see good work, please keep us posted on the progression. Thanks, Don
 

akeppler

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Re: First wiring - Japanese Black Pine
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2011, 04:13 PM »
I'm going to ask a stupid question John, so bare with me.  Based on photos in the thread with tree called 84, we have a down shot on the branches. there is not a down shot on this thread but I suspect the branches will look much the same. My question is this.

Does Boon teach branch movement fairly straight or does he promote more wiggle in branches when seen from above? I also do not detect much movement in the side shots as well. Just wondering?
 

MatsuBonsai

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Re: First wiring - Japanese Black Pine
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2011, 05:21 PM »
Yes, he does teach to add believable movement.  More curve on deciduous trees, less so on JBP, for example. 

Also, remember this tree and 84 are both in very early stages of development.  The important thing here is to set the angle of the branch.  Likely the entire branch structure on both trees will be replaced in the next several years.  As they both develop more movement will be added through wiring, yes, but more importantly (and believably?) through better and tighter ramification.

Good question.
 

Treebeard55

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Re: First wiring - Japanese Black Pine
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2011, 07:57 PM »
A massive bulge of roots.  Nothing to be done but develop better nebari around it.

Or turn it into a feature.  :)
 

akeppler

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Re: First wiring - Japanese Black Pine
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2011, 03:28 PM »
Yes, he does teach to add believable movement.  More curve on deciduous trees, less so on JBP, for example. 

Also, remember this tree and 84 are both in very early stages of development.  The important thing here is to set the angle of the branch.  Likely the entire branch structure on both trees will be replaced in the next several years.  As they both develop more movement will be added through wiring, yes, but more importantly (and believably?) through better and tighter ramification.

Good question.

Good answer, but....

What constitutes believable, and how does ramification play into adding movement? I find that exaggerated movement in youg thin branches looks quite convincing when the branch is grown out to 3/8 or larger. It just seems that setting movement at a younger age would be more benificial.

The other question that stems from your answer is why is the entire branch structure going to be rebuilt at a later date and why wire something now that will be entirely rebuilt later? I have only been working with pines for about three years in earnest so this process intrigues me.
 

MatsuBonsai

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Re: First wiring - Japanese Black Pine
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2011, 03:58 PM »
Good answer, but....

What constitutes believable, and how does ramification play into adding movement? I find that exaggerated movement in youg thin branches looks quite convincing when the branch is grown out to 3/8 or larger. It just seems that setting movement at a younger age would be more benificial.

The other question that stems from your answer is why is the entire branch structure going to be rebuilt at a later date and why wire something now that will be entirely rebuilt later? I have only been working with pines for about three years in earnest so this process intrigues me.

I'm sure believable is wide ranging for everyone.  For the most part it's making the branches mimic the movement of the trunk.  Straight branches on your yamadori style pine would look out of place, for example.  Twisty branches on a formal upright equally "wrong". 

I agree with you that more movement younger is better, as they tend to straighten out some and thicken on the inside of the curves.  I probably could (should?) put some more movement into the branches for this tree.  I'm not too worried, as it's long and leggy right now and will be greatly reduced in the future.

The branches are all wired out and placed for maximum air movement and light to promote back-budding.  After this summers decandling I should have plenty of buds to work with for future compactness.  As new buds form (and become strong enough) I'll cut back and redirect the branch with a new apex, inducing more movement to the branch.  This will also help induce taper of the branches.  Think of it as exaggerated clip and grow. :)

The final width of this tree will be about half as wide as it is now.
 

MatsuBonsai

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Re: First wiring - Japanese Black Pine
« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2011, 04:08 PM »
For kicks, here's the branch structure.  Leggy.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2011, 04:25 PM by MatsuBonsai »