Bonsai Study Group Forum

Species Specific => Japanese Black Pine Bonsai Discussion => Topic started by: Dirk on November 09, 2014, 03:14 PM

Title: first styling new big black pine
Post by: Dirk on November 09, 2014, 03:14 PM
After a long wait of two years after obtaining this big japanese black pine I finally got to do a first styling of it, with my teacher Ron.
It will still take several years to devellop secundairy and tertiary branching but a start has finally been made.

Hope you like it and please share your comments.

The height of the tree above the pot is 80 cm (that would be 32 in?).
Plans for the  near future: slippotting it into a slightly larger container next spring and concentrate on backbudding and growth of secundairy and tertairy branches. Several branches also need thickening. In three years it should be ready for its first bonsaipot.
Title: Re: first styling new big black pine
Post by: Adair M on November 09, 2014, 04:29 PM
A couple comments:

The lowest branch on the left is too low. If you are keeping it to thicken the trunk, it won't do positioned as a branch. If you want it to be a sacrifice to thicken the trunk, wire it up vertical, cut off most of its branches, and let the terminal tip grow unchecked. It won't do much until it is taller than the rest of the tree, then it should take off and build trunk.

There are some heavy branches in the top of the tree. You might consider cutting these off and using lighter ones. There's also some branches coming off the inside of curves on the trunk. Those may need to be removed.

About slip potting... Your photos don't show the depth of the current container. If it's fairly deep, consider sawing it off in half, then using a pond basket as your next training pot.

Good luck with your pine. You're off to a good start!
Title: Re: first styling new big black pine
Post by: Dirk on November 11, 2014, 04:35 PM
Adair,

Thanks for your positive comments!
You forgot to mention the bar branches and the spoke branches.

I did not want to repot next year at all, but because the container was cut down I have trouble lifting the tree. So a new container, slightly bigger, with minimal disturbance of the roots doesn't seem a bad idea.
Next spring absolutely no rootwork will be done on this tree.
Title: Re: first styling new big black pine
Post by: Adair M on November 11, 2014, 07:10 PM
Dirk, I figured you already knew about the spoke branches, and bar branches. It's better to go slow when removing branches. Let the tree recover. Too much too soon can really set s a tree back.

Hmm... No reporting at all?  When was it last repotted? And, is it in good bonsai soil?
Title: Re: first styling new big black pine
Post by: Dirk on November 12, 2014, 01:33 AM
Adair,

I learnt (the hard way) to do work only once on roots or on branches per vegetative (is that English? ) period.  So now it must recover from its first styling an no sooner then spring 2016 I will do serious root work.
The soil is kind of okay.  Stays wet a little longer then I would like, but it's drains wel.
As you mentioned: more branches will have to go in the near future. I want thick branches with big pads of foliage, and much negative space.
Title: Re: first styling new big black pine
Post by: Adair M on November 13, 2014, 09:06 AM
"Thick branches"?

I think we're having a language difficulty here.

If you are saying you want branches with lots of ramification and twigging, we are on the same page.

If you are saying you want large caliper branches, I would disagree. You have a tall and slender trunk. The branches should also be slender.

Title: Re: first styling new big black pine
Post by: Dirk on July 02, 2015, 03:16 PM
Hi Adair,

Reading your comments again I realise that your remarks are not only correct, but also allways positive.
I wanted a moyogi with a big trunk. Its obvious that this pine isn't going to be that.
I decided to style it as a slant. Leaning it to the left. Need to lose a lot of branches lower on the trunk and the heavy branches in the top of the tree.
I'm a little worried about its vigour at the moment, due to a very cold spring. That's why I didn't do any pruning this spring. I will prune next fall to achieve backbudding. And for now I'll let it grow.
About reducing a canopy of a pine or conifers in general. The advise is allways to reduces a canopy in stages. No one ever tells how much time there should be between those stages. Is that a whole year, a couple of months or a couple of weeks.
Title: Re: first styling new big black pine
Post by: Adair M on July 03, 2015, 04:12 PM
Dirk, do you have a current picture with your new front?
Title: Re: first styling new big black pine
Post by: Dirk on July 03, 2015, 08:54 PM
Adair,

I will post another picture after work on the tree next fall.
Title: Re: first styling new big black pine
Post by: Dirk on June 12, 2016, 02:12 PM
here is an update on my big black pine.
last april I took it to a workshop with Taiga Urushibata. Taiga encouraged me to cut of all the branches that I thought were unnecessary.  Keeping an eye on what I was pruning away, he kept saying ' be brave, be brave...'
Later I corrected the first branche that was coming of the trunk at an awkward angle. I used a clamp and guy wires to bring the branche down. (I saw this in a post from Al Keppler about his Muranaka pine). Next year I'll take it further, by cutting a wedge in the underside of the branche.
Now need a lot of backbudding and growth. I begin to be happy with this tree.
Title: Re: first styling new big black pine
Post by: Dirk on June 12, 2016, 02:14 PM
and a few more pictures
Title: Re: first styling new big black pine
Post by: bwaynef on June 14, 2016, 03:53 PM
Could you explain a bit further about that clamp?
Title: Re: first styling new big black pine
Post by: Dirk on June 16, 2016, 12:28 PM
what is there to explain? Its just a tool used in furniture making.All Keppler explains it very well in his posts about his Muranaka pine. Its about the same clamp, a little more oldfashioned tough. I used it t change the angle that the first branche came of the trunk. I lowered it as far as I dared and secured with a guy wire. I want it further down, but I need to cut a small wedge from  he underside to bend iteven more.