Author Topic: cork bark JBP  (Read 6669 times)

Owen Reich

  • Hero Forum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 888
  • Thanked: 7 times
Re: cork bark JBP
« Reply #15 on: October 31, 2012, 10:12 AM »
so since i didnt decandle this past summer cause it was repotted in the spring i should decandle this summer. so how do you maintain small needles on the cork bark if your decandling every other year?

........Stand back about 50 feet.....  ;)

I have never done this myself, but have heard that you can remove big plates of bark on cork-barks, wire the branches, and then let them cork back up after wire sets.  This process supposedly allows for adventitious buds to form on the branches.  I hope to see the trees (in America) that had this technique performed soon and take some pics.  We do Fall needle thinning (generally down to 7-8 needle sets) now to December. 
 

dre

  • Full Forum Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 158
Re: cork bark JBP
« Reply #16 on: October 31, 2012, 08:13 PM »
so let me get this straight they are not as strong as regular JBP decandle every other year needle thin in fall which i did this week and treat more like white pines during the growing season meaning hold fertilizer till new growth hardens off. mmmm this is why i dont grow white pines i dont really like the idea of holding fertilizer to me that just makes for a weak tree in a pot. but what can you do i wanted a cork bark pine
 

MatsuBonsai

  • John Callaway
  • Administrator
  • Hero Forum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1398
  • Thanked: 6 times
Re: cork bark JBP
« Reply #17 on: October 31, 2012, 08:23 PM »
I think perhaps you missed part of the conversation.

If you want a weak cork bark then by all means, treat it like a 5 needle.

If you want a strong tree, feed the crap out of it.
 

John Kirby

  • Hero Forum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2216
  • Thanked: 16 times
  • I really need an opposable thumb...
Re: cork bark JBP
« Reply #18 on: October 31, 2012, 09:41 PM »
The issue with this tree is the prevalence of thin needles, not the sharp, stiff, dark needles you really want.
 

dre

  • Full Forum Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 158
Re: cork bark JBP
« Reply #19 on: November 01, 2012, 09:18 AM »
MatsuBonsai so if your feeding the crap out of the tree how do you plan or how do you keep the needle length proportionate to the tree?
 

MatsuBonsai

  • John Callaway
  • Administrator
  • Hero Forum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1398
  • Thanked: 6 times
Re: cork bark JBP
« Reply #20 on: November 01, 2012, 11:42 AM »
When tree is weak managing needle length shouldn't be a concern. Go back and read the thread I linked earlier.  Plan ahead several years for exhibit and adjust your management accordingly.

Once it's really healthy and you have a good idea on how it grows and reacts to stressors you can work out your schedule better.
 

MatsuBonsai

  • John Callaway
  • Administrator
  • Hero Forum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1398
  • Thanked: 6 times
Re: cork bark JBP
« Reply #21 on: November 01, 2012, 12:20 PM »
Here's a fun exercise I like to try from time to time. Do you own a crispy of photoshop/gimp/paint?  Post up an image of your vision for the tree.

While you're creating your image keep in mind what it is you want and what it might take to get there. Do you want short needles on the end of your current branches?  Do you want more movement, taper, and ramification?  What's it gonna take to get there?
 

Chrisl

  • Hero Forum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 897
Re: cork bark JBP
« Reply #22 on: November 01, 2012, 07:11 PM »
Good idea John.  Though I'm pretty bad at photo/graphic editing lol
 

dre

  • Full Forum Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 158
Re: cork bark JBP
« Reply #23 on: November 01, 2012, 07:33 PM »
MatsuBonsai that post explains very little about the year to year care for cork bark. mostly talking about boon's cork bark pine can you tell me what you do as timing is everything and we both live in the same climate zone.does boons pine series explain cork bark care?
 

MatsuBonsai

  • John Callaway
  • Administrator
  • Hero Forum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1398
  • Thanked: 6 times
Re: cork bark JBP
« Reply #24 on: November 01, 2012, 07:46 PM »
You're right, nothing to be learned from that particular post. Nothing at all.

Yes, in that they explain JBP care and advocate observing the health and growth of your trees.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2012, 07:49 PM by MatsuBonsai »
 

dre

  • Full Forum Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 158
Re: cork bark JBP
« Reply #25 on: November 02, 2012, 12:16 PM »
ok so on that note i wont ask again about cork bark care
 

MatsuBonsai

  • John Callaway
  • Administrator
  • Hero Forum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1398
  • Thanked: 6 times
Re: cork bark JBP
« Reply #26 on: November 02, 2012, 12:51 PM »
Forgive me, that was rude of me.

There are only so many ways to answer the same question. Treat it like any other JBP. If its weak, don't decandling it.  If you want to control growth break the buds in spring. If you want to put all the energy into bark development then Fred the crap out of it and nothing else.
 

nathanbs

  • Sr. Forum Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 370
  • Thanked: 2 times
Re: cork bark JBP
« Reply #27 on: November 02, 2012, 02:30 PM »
So what it boils down to whether its a cork bark JBP or a regular JBP if it is healthy then follow the current decandling and needle thinning/old needle plucking techniques. However if the tree or a part of the tree whether its a cork bark or not is weak then no work is to be done to that tree or that affected area and/or a modified technique can be a possibility. Is this correct? I think its these modified techniques that one observes in Japan and then comes back to teach that technique as a universal fix-all for cork bark JBP. I have had significant problems universally applying the decandling and needle techniques to my trees that had less than ideal health conditions as a result of not watering properly. I did not read any caution in the dozen or so sources that make sure trees health is ideal before performing these stressful techniques. In retrospect its common sense, but its another example of getting lost in the details
 

dre

  • Full Forum Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 158
Re: cork bark JBP
« Reply #28 on: November 02, 2012, 08:07 PM »
thank you
 

Owen Reich

  • Hero Forum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 888
  • Thanked: 7 times
Re: cork bark JBP
« Reply #29 on: November 03, 2012, 05:00 AM »
Hopefully Peter Tea will be putting something together on different black pine naturally occurring varieties and cultivars.  I'd like to hear some of the techniques applied at Aichi-en and Daiju-en. 

 I helped present a few techniques on the BOAJ series (Episode 7), but at was just mentioned above, a single technique applied over the whole tree is generally not a good idea; especially if the tree is not well balanced in terms of uniform shoot vigor.  We're pulling needles and removing large branches to balance vigor now actually.  I just finished a few cork-barks, and my main job for the tree was pulling needles and cutting about 1/3 of long needles  :o off.  I know, some people don't like that.  But, cutting needles shorter is not just for making the tree look better.  It does help balance vigor too.