Bonsai Study Group Forum

Species Specific => Japanese Black Pine Bonsai Discussion => Topic started by: dre on October 29, 2012, 06:48 AM

Title: cork bark JBP
Post by: dre on October 29, 2012, 06:48 AM
heres some before and after pictures of my cork bark JBP after pulling needles for fall maintenance  tell what you think i welcome your opinion
Title: Re: cork bark JBP
Post by: namnhi on October 29, 2012, 01:26 PM
Very nice.  Looking very healthy and love the trunk movement and not reverse taper. I like the simplicity of this one.
NN
Title: Re: cork bark JBP
Post by: bwaynef on October 29, 2012, 04:04 PM
How many pairs of needles did you leave in the strong, medium, and weak areas, and how long have you had this tree?
Title: Re: cork bark JBP
Post by: Adair M on October 29, 2012, 07:37 PM
Give it a good feeding!  Corkers are heavy feeders as they spend a lot of energy building bark.

(I'm not saying it looks underfed.)
Title: Re: cork bark JBP
Post by: dre on October 29, 2012, 08:13 PM
the strength of the tree is well balanced so i just pulled the 2011 needles
Title: Re: cork bark JBP
Post by: dre on October 29, 2012, 08:13 PM
i was actually thinking about changing the pot what do you guys think
Title: Re: cork bark JBP
Post by: nathanbs on October 30, 2012, 01:19 PM
has anybody ever explained that candle technique on cork bark is much different than regular JBP? They grow much slower and tend to be weaker so it is popular to treat them more similar to white pine. Let them grow then prune them back
Title: Re: cork bark JBP
Post by: MatsuBonsai on October 30, 2012, 01:31 PM
That hasn't been my experience. It's my understanding that decandling is skipped exert other year to all the bark to develop, not because of strength or weakness.
Title: Re: cork bark JBP
Post by: nathanbs on October 30, 2012, 02:14 PM
Not sure as I have limited experience myself but i have been told by at least 2 different artists that both studied in Japan that it is more like white pines. But maybe your technique is a very viable solution. How long have you been doing the every other year and do you do the usual old needle removal, and/or any needle thinning?
Title: Re: cork bark JBP
Post by: MatsuBonsai on October 30, 2012, 06:16 PM
One of my cork barks was this years strongest grower in my yard.  Plenty of fertilizer and water.  Wasn't decandled this year.

Boon was kind enough to let me work on one of his (http://bonsaistudygroup.com/japanese-black-pine-discussion/pinus-thunbergii-var-corticosa/msg3747/#msg3747) during Fall Intensive 2009.  It was also prepped for show during my Winter III Intensive by yet another John.  Needle thinning just like any other.
Title: Re: cork bark JBP
Post by: Chrisl on October 30, 2012, 07:26 PM
That's one heck of a nice corked bark pine Boon has there!  A real privilege I'm sure to have worked on this tree too John!

Sorry guys, I don't have one so can't add to this thread.
Title: Re: cork bark JBP
Post by: dre on October 30, 2012, 07:47 PM
john so if the cork bark is skipper every other year not cause of weakness they why do you skip it i only ask as this is my first cork bark
Title: Re: cork bark JBP
Post by: MatsuBonsai on October 30, 2012, 08:03 PM
To keep the tree growing and pushing, forming more bark.
Title: Re: cork bark JBP
Post by: John Kirby on October 30, 2012, 10:15 PM
And they are weak, if not cared for appropriately.
Title: Re: cork bark JBP
Post by: dre on October 31, 2012, 05:42 AM
so since i didnt decandle this past summer cause it was repotted in the spring i should decandle this summer. so how do you maintain small needles on the cork bark if your decandling every other year?
Title: Re: cork bark JBP
Post by: Owen Reich on October 31, 2012, 10:12 AM
so since i didnt decandle this past summer cause it was repotted in the spring i should decandle this summer. so how do you maintain small needles on the cork bark if your decandling every other year?

........Stand back about 50 feet.....  ;). 

I have never done this myself, but have heard that you can remove big plates of bark on cork-barks, wire the branches, and then let them cork back up after wire sets.  This process supposedly allows for adventitious buds to form on the branches.  I hope to see the trees (in America) that had this technique performed soon and take some pics.  We do Fall needle thinning (generally down to 7-8 needle sets) now to December. 
Title: Re: cork bark JBP
Post by: dre on October 31, 2012, 08:13 PM
so let me get this straight they are not as strong as regular JBP decandle every other year needle thin in fall which i did this week and treat more like white pines during the growing season meaning hold fertilizer till new growth hardens off. mmmm this is why i dont grow white pines i dont really like the idea of holding fertilizer to me that just makes for a weak tree in a pot. but what can you do i wanted a cork bark pine
Title: Re: cork bark JBP
Post by: MatsuBonsai on October 31, 2012, 08:23 PM
I think perhaps you missed part of the conversation.

If you want a weak cork bark then by all means, treat it like a 5 needle.

If you want a strong tree, feed the crap out of it.
Title: Re: cork bark JBP
Post by: John Kirby on October 31, 2012, 09:41 PM
The issue with this tree is the prevalence of thin needles, not the sharp, stiff, dark needles you really want.
Title: Re: cork bark JBP
Post by: dre on November 01, 2012, 09:18 AM
MatsuBonsai so if your feeding the crap out of the tree how do you plan or how do you keep the needle length proportionate to the tree?
Title: Re: cork bark JBP
Post by: MatsuBonsai on November 01, 2012, 11:42 AM
When tree is weak managing needle length shouldn't be a concern. Go back and read the thread I linked earlier.  Plan ahead several years for exhibit and adjust your management accordingly.

Once it's really healthy and you have a good idea on how it grows and reacts to stressors you can work out your schedule better.
Title: Re: cork bark JBP
Post by: MatsuBonsai on November 01, 2012, 12:20 PM
Here's a fun exercise I like to try from time to time. Do you own a crispy of photoshop/gimp/paint?  Post up an image of your vision for the tree.

While you're creating your image keep in mind what it is you want and what it might take to get there. Do you want short needles on the end of your current branches?  Do you want more movement, taper, and ramification?  What's it gonna take to get there?
Title: Re: cork bark JBP
Post by: Chrisl on November 01, 2012, 07:11 PM
Good idea John.  Though I'm pretty bad at photo/graphic editing lol
Title: Re: cork bark JBP
Post by: dre on November 01, 2012, 07:33 PM
MatsuBonsai that post explains very little about the year to year care for cork bark. mostly talking about boon's cork bark pine can you tell me what you do as timing is everything and we both live in the same climate zone.does boons pine series explain cork bark care?
Title: Re: cork bark JBP
Post by: MatsuBonsai on November 01, 2012, 07:46 PM
You're right, nothing to be learned from that particular post. Nothing at all.

Yes, in that they explain JBP care and advocate observing the health and growth of your trees.
Title: Re: cork bark JBP
Post by: dre on November 02, 2012, 12:16 PM
ok so on that note i wont ask again about cork bark care
Title: Re: cork bark JBP
Post by: MatsuBonsai on November 02, 2012, 12:51 PM
Forgive me, that was rude of me.

There are only so many ways to answer the same question. Treat it like any other JBP. If its weak, don't decandling it.  If you want to control growth break the buds in spring. If you want to put all the energy into bark development then Fred the crap out of it and nothing else.
Title: Re: cork bark JBP
Post by: nathanbs on November 02, 2012, 02:30 PM
So what it boils down to whether its a cork bark JBP or a regular JBP if it is healthy then follow the current decandling and needle thinning/old needle plucking techniques. However if the tree or a part of the tree whether its a cork bark or not is weak then no work is to be done to that tree or that affected area and/or a modified technique can be a possibility. Is this correct? I think its these modified techniques that one observes in Japan and then comes back to teach that technique as a universal fix-all for cork bark JBP. I have had significant problems universally applying the decandling and needle techniques to my trees that had less than ideal health conditions as a result of not watering properly. I did not read any caution in the dozen or so sources that make sure trees health is ideal before performing these stressful techniques. In retrospect its common sense, but its another example of getting lost in the details
Title: Re: cork bark JBP
Post by: dre on November 02, 2012, 08:07 PM
thank you
Title: Re: cork bark JBP
Post by: Owen Reich on November 03, 2012, 05:00 AM
Hopefully Peter Tea will be putting something together on different black pine naturally occurring varieties and cultivars.  I'd like to hear some of the techniques applied at Aichi-en and Daiju-en. 

 I helped present a few techniques on the BOAJ series (Episode 7), but at was just mentioned above, a single technique applied over the whole tree is generally not a good idea; especially if the tree is not well balanced in terms of uniform shoot vigor.  We're pulling needles and removing large branches to balance vigor now actually.  I just finished a few cork-barks, and my main job for the tree was pulling needles and cutting about 1/3 of long needles  :o off.  I know, some people don't like that.  But, cutting needles shorter is not just for making the tree look better.  It does help balance vigor too. 
Title: Re: cork bark JBP
Post by: dre on November 03, 2012, 07:08 AM
peter's blog is always a good read and full of information hopefully he does put something together soon
Title: Re: cork bark JBP
Post by: dre on November 12, 2012, 01:21 PM
thinking about putting this cork bark JBP up for sale any takers????
Title: Re: cork bark JBP
Post by: dre on December 19, 2012, 11:58 AM
up for sale help me find a new home for this tree also on ebay heres the link http://www.ebay.com/itm/Japanese-cork-bark-black-pine-/200867407722?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ec4a1676a (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Japanese-cork-bark-black-pine-/200867407722?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ec4a1676a)
Title: Re: cork bark JBP
Post by: bigDave on December 22, 2012, 11:52 PM
Happy with the price?  Bet that cost more then $25 to ship it, eh?
Title: Re: cork bark JBP
Post by: dre on December 23, 2012, 11:03 AM
sold it and shipped to north Florida for 23
Title: Re: cork bark JBP
Post by: bigDave on December 24, 2012, 01:29 AM
sold it and shipped to north Florida for 23
good job