Author Topic: black pine with a cluster of branches  (Read 13878 times)

John Kirby

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Re: black pine with a cluster of branches
« Reply #30 on: November 21, 2012, 11:48 AM »
If you have airlayered, let them be. The main reason for cutting back was to stimulate back budding, you can do that when you remove the airlayers. Most of the successful JBP airlayers I have seen, all of the ones here in the US, have been done by airlayering candles. But you have young branches, it will be interesting to see if it works.

 

0soyoung

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Re: black pine with a cluster of branches
« Reply #31 on: November 21, 2012, 02:08 PM »
If you have airlayered, let them be. The main reason for cutting back was to stimulate back budding, you can do that when you remove the airlayers. Most of the successful JBP airlayers I have seen, all of the ones here in the US, have been done by airlayering candles. But you have young branches, it will be interesting to see if it works.



The gridling of the branch interrupts the auxin flow. As far as the branches/stems below the girdle are concerned, the branches have, already been cut off. In other words, the back buds have been stimulated already.

I claim success air-layering JBP wood that was over 5 years old when started. I used a wire stricture instead of conventional girdling. One layer took 3 years, the other 2.

I suspect you refer to George Mirakana's air-layering as 'here in the US ... airlayering candles'. Regardless, he has successful air-layers with the conventional girdle versus a wire stricture. IIRC, his layers with the wire stricture were 24 months to harvest, whereas he can harvest in less than 12 months with girdling. Remarkable basal flaring is what one gets for the extra time with the wire stricture. I think George now has layers in progress on old wood.
 

John Kirby

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Re: black pine with a cluster of branches
« Reply #32 on: November 21, 2012, 02:17 PM »
Thanks, and Bill Hashimoto's which go back to the original golden ststements piece
 

Herman

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Re: black pine with a cluster of branches
« Reply #33 on: November 21, 2012, 03:01 PM »
Wonder if I can link our local forum...a friend of mine took airlayers of 2 to 3 year old wood in say 6 to 8 months, he made them in late spring and removed them the next spring. He told me out of the 5 airlayers 3 made it with a lot of roots, one completely died and the other just calussed over, so I'm hoping for the same or better.

Ps thanx for the help mr Kirby :D
« Last Edit: November 21, 2012, 03:12 PM by Herman »
 

Herman

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Re: black pine with a cluster of branches
« Reply #34 on: November 21, 2012, 03:10 PM »
If you have airlayered, let them be. The main reason for cutting back was to stimulate back budding, you can do that when you remove the airlayers. Most of the successful JBP airlayers I have seen, all of the ones here in the US, have been done by airlayering candles. But you have young branches, it will be interesting to see if it works.



The gridling of the branch interrupts the auxin flow. As far as the branches/stems below the girdle are concerned, the branches have, already been cut off. In other words, the back buds have been stimulated allready

Shouldn't I have cut some needles or plucked some needles to let some light deaper into the tree, and in that way help with the backbudding?
 

Herman

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Re: black pine with a cluster of branches
« Reply #35 on: December 05, 2012, 03:03 AM »
Air layers are doing fine, even the new candles on the layered parts have continued to grow, and the new needles are just starting to stand away from the candle stem. New growth means new roots on any tree.
 

John Kirby

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Re: black pine with a cluster of branches
« Reply #36 on: December 05, 2012, 07:58 AM »
Herman it can mean new roots, it can also mean that the Cambium has worked to heal and reconnect, but let's hope for new roots. I really enjoy propagating, especially when you can get a fast start like you can get with airlayers.  Look forward to seeing them in pots.
 

bwaynef

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Re: black pine with a cluster of branches
« Reply #37 on: December 05, 2012, 10:01 AM »
Air layers are doing fine, even the new candles on the layered parts have continued to grow, and the new needles are just starting to stand away from the candle stem. New growth means new roots on any tree.

Do you have any pics of the airlayers, or, better yet, of the process.
 

Herman

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Re: black pine with a cluster of branches
« Reply #38 on: December 05, 2012, 03:49 PM »
Herman it can mean new roots, it can also mean that the Cambium has worked to heal and reconnect, but let's hope for new roots. I really enjoy propagating, especially when you can get a fast start like you can get with airlayers.  Look forward to seeing them in pots.

Hello mr Kirby

Yes I know its something that can happen, but I really hope its not the case.  I took out about 1 1/4" just to be sure...
Lol its hard not to count them chickens before they hatch...will only be sure when I see those white roots.

Air layers are doing fine, even the new candles on the layered parts have continued to grow, and the new needles are just starting to stand away from the candle stem. New growth means new roots on any tree.

Do you have any pics of the airlayers, or, better yet, of the process.

Have some pics of the layers, let's see if I can post them...don't have any of the process though...only thought about it afterwards...
« Last Edit: December 05, 2012, 04:07 PM by Herman »
 

0soyoung

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Re: black pine with a cluster of branches
« Reply #39 on: December 05, 2012, 04:09 PM »
Herman,

Why don't you take the plastic off (one or more) and gently open the sphagnum to see what is going on?

If you find roots, smile (take a picture for your friends) and carefully reclose the sphagum and rewrap it.

If not, you can completely remove the sphagnum to expose the girdle and correct any problems that you find, such as callus bridging.

Of course, everything can be okay with your execution, but there are no roots developing. At least you will know.
 

Herman

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Re: black pine with a cluster of branches
« Reply #40 on: December 06, 2012, 01:29 AM »
Herman,

Why don't you take the plastic off (one or more) and gently open the sphagnum to see what is going on?

If you find roots, smile (take a picture for your friends) and carefully reclose the sphagum and rewrap it.

If not, you can completely remove the sphagnum to expose the girdle and correct any problems that you find, such as callus bridging.

Of course, everything can be okay with your execution, but there are no roots developing. At least you will know.

Did not use spaghnum, used a mix of germination mix soil and washed river sand(roots aren't such a mess, as it is with spaghnum), whole mix will fall away from the roots if I remove the plastic. Its okay though, its see through plastic so I just have to wait a little while longer for the roots to reach the bags' side wall.  Jis I'm curious now...
 

bwaynef

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Re: black pine with a cluster of branches
« Reply #41 on: December 06, 2012, 10:22 AM »
When do you expect to start seeing roots?
 

Herman

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Re: black pine with a cluster of branches
« Reply #42 on: December 06, 2012, 06:28 PM »
My friend said he started seeing roots around month 6 or 7. I made the layers about 2 to 3 months ago...so it should be a while still.
 

Herman

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Re: black pine with a cluster of branches
« Reply #43 on: January 16, 2013, 10:16 AM »
Hello guys

Airlayers are looking good, on some I can spot some rootcaps that reached the sidewall of the layer :D

I have a question though

I want to trunkchop this tree to a little branch just below the cluster, should I gradually remove the top over a few seasons?
I will remove the layers this september(my spring time), I plan to take off most branches on that cluster after removing the layers to try and get that little branch to beef up...

Or can I dive in and trunkchop after removing the layers? I've chopped pines before, but never removed so much foliage with a chop.

Thanx in advance
Herman
 

John Kirby

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Re: black pine with a cluster of branches
« Reply #44 on: January 16, 2013, 07:29 PM »
Herman, if the bud you want to chop to is reaaly strong you can cut it. If not, after you remove your layers remove the clustered branches except 1 or 2. It should grow strongly, once you have a good long candle, then cut the remainimg cluster branches.