Bonsai Study Group Forum

General Category => General Bonsai Discussion => Topic started by: Stebry on March 09, 2015, 04:34 PM

Title: Yamadori in perlite?
Post by: Stebry on March 09, 2015, 04:34 PM
Hello all -

I've read on some European bonsai blogs, that they use 100% horticultural perlite as substrate for newly collected material.

Has anyone here tried using straight perlite for yamadori? 

On one hand it kind of makes sense, the same way using straight pumice does. On the other hand I've never heard of anyone in the states uses pure perlite, and perlite is generally poo poo'd on forums.

Title: Re: Yamadori in perlite?
Post by: J.Kent on March 09, 2015, 05:06 PM
Yamadori what?  It may matter.
Title: Re: Yamadori in perlite?
Post by: Stebry on March 09, 2015, 06:30 PM
Deciduous trees, an elm as soon as the ground thaws.
Title: Re: Yamadori in perlite?
Post by: tmmason10 on March 09, 2015, 09:58 PM
I collected some pitch pine seedlings in pure perlite, and they did very well. I haven't collected tried it with deciduous but I can't see why it wouldnt work.

https://tomsbonsai.wordpress.com/tag/cape-cod-bonsai/
Title: Re: Yamadori in perlite?
Post by: Owen Reich on March 09, 2015, 10:33 PM
I've used perlite for deciduous tree projects; putting rooted cuttings or seedlings together to make clump styles.  Wear a dust mask and try to shed some "dusty" layers before going inside.  The dust is bad for you.

Only issue with perlite is you have to watch for deciduous trees drying out too much.
Title: Re: Yamadori in perlite?
Post by: Anthony on March 10, 2015, 12:18 PM
Been trying for years to collect a Sida Acuta,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sida_acuta (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sida_acuta)

normally only the less than pencil thick trunks would survive.

This year one was found with a 1" trunk, about 3' tall.
Using a mix of 90 % perlite and 10 % peatmoss [ by volume ] it survived and is flowering/growing.

Let us see how long it lives for.
Good Day
Anthony
Title: Re: Yamadori in perlite?
Post by: Stebry on March 11, 2015, 05:53 AM
Thanks for the replies. I'll give it a go this spring and post results. 
Title: Re: Yamadori in perlite?
Post by: Leo in NE Illinois on March 11, 2015, 05:36 PM
I've used straight 100% perlite for pre-bonsai nursery stock, rough stock, and seedlings - I don't do much collecting. I like it, lighter and easier to get than pumice. Because it is so light, it should be used with caution in potting mixes, it will float up over heavy components like crushed granite. Works very well mixed with similar particle size Kanuma (my favorite Azalea mix).

The it doesn't change color as it dries, so you have to stay on top of watering. It is too light, floats away, to be used for trees in a finished bonsai pot, but it is great for nursery cans and grow boxes.  Add a layer of long fiber sphagnum on top to hold it down when watering. Azaleas do well in it. Pretty much the same benefits as with pumice at a fraction of the weight. 

''Crust'' uses it too for establishing yamadori - he is in Duluth MN area, so there are other Midwesterners using it besides me. 
Title: Re: Yamadori in perlite?
Post by: Stebry on March 12, 2015, 07:44 AM
Great to hear there is success using it in the Midwest. Spring is almost here :).
Title: Re: Yamadori in perlite?
Post by: Jerry Norbury on March 12, 2015, 08:49 AM
I've never heard of it used or seen it recommended.

What's the source of this European claim? We have lots of cheap alternatives (like diatomaceous earth cat litters) which are much more appropriate...
Title: Re: Yamadori in perlite?
Post by: tmmason10 on March 12, 2015, 09:34 AM
I've never heard of it used or seen it recommended.

What's the source of this European claim? We have lots of cheap alternatives (like diatomaceous earth cat litters) which are much more appropriate...

Hi Jerry, here's a blog with a link to an Italian forum.

http://lakeshorebonsai.com/?p=301 (http://lakeshorebonsai.com/?p=301)
Title: Re: Yamadori in perlite?
Post by: Anthony on March 12, 2015, 01:04 PM
Does anyone know why Perlite might have such a positive effect with regards to root stimulation ?

Around here Perlite is really used crushed as an ingredient for making Egyptian Paste or as a glaze ingredient, not really for soil mixes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_faience (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_faience)

Good Day
Anthony
Title: Re: Yamadori in perlite?
Post by: John Kirby on March 12, 2015, 04:27 PM
Anthony, it has many of the attributes of pumice. Sifting out the fines helps a lot. I start my cuttings in Ioo% perlite with a layer of long fibered sphagnum on the surface to slow drying. The sphagnum layer also works to hold the perlite in place as it is very light and blows away. The benefits are most likely from the rapid water movement through the medium, it's ability to hold some water and the massive amount of air it keeps in proximity to the roots.
Title: Re: Yamadori in perlite?
Post by: Sorce on March 13, 2015, 06:08 AM
If perlite was heavy,  the soil debate would end!

Sorce