Author Topic: Tree identification  (Read 33633 times)

DorianJF

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Re: Tree identification
« Reply #60 on: February 15, 2016, 05:27 AM »
I decided that it was time to cut off the longest branches and not cut anything on the smaller wired branch.  That branch is loaded with buds and I want it to thicken up considerably now to come more in line with the other branch.

I removed the wire off the branch and once again the tree will be left to grow.  I will keep an eye on the main canopy and ensure that the growth there is kept to a minimum.  I want all energy to go to the newer branch.
 

Leo in NE Illinois

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Re: Tree identification
« Reply #61 on: February 21, 2016, 12:21 PM »
Coming along. nicely.
 

DorianJF

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Re: Tree identification
« Reply #62 on: February 22, 2016, 12:55 AM »
Thanks Leo

In Spring (Sept 16) I will put it into a larger growing pot to really try to push the growth along that new branch.
 

Leo in NE Illinois

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Re: Tree identification
« Reply #63 on: March 03, 2016, 11:15 AM »
Hi Dorian
I think putting this in a larger tray or pot to grow out for a couple years would be a good idea. I think Walter Pall's approach; "Hedge Pruning" for 2 to 5 years would really benefit this tree. Even if you then bring it to shohin size, the trunk thickening is something you could really use. You need more branches to choose from, and will only get them with vigorous, wild growth for a few years. You need branches to extend 2 meters or so a few times to build thicker trunks and primary branches and "Hedge Pruning" after a cycle of 2 meter extension will force many back buds, to give you better choices for final branches.

Identity. Looking at the central variegation in some of your leaves, I think the "true" identity of this shrub is Elaeagnus × ebbingei = (E. macrophylla × E. pungens). There are a fair number of selected cultivars from this cross and many are variegated. Some are central variegates, with the lighter color in the central portion of the leaf, some are margin variegates. The original guess at E. pungens was close, but the large leaves also point to the other parent in E. x ebbingei. The hybrid origin may also explain the lack of berries. The hybrid only rarely produces fruit, generally the genetics are incompatible enough that you do not get the heavy fruiting that you would have with the normal species.
 
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DorianJF

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Re: Tree identification
« Reply #64 on: March 04, 2016, 03:22 AM »
Hi Leo

Thanks so much for all the information.

The plan is definitely to put this into a larger pot come Spring (Sept 2016) and I like the idea of bringing it down to a Shohin size.  Should one contemplate looking at doing a trunk chop on it?  I will definitely need loads of thickening to be happening.  There is already a new bud forming much further down on the trunk.  My only worry is that it may be on the wrong side of where I need it?  Thoughts?

I have read up on the hedge pruning method before and will definitely use it on this tree. 

Thanks for the information on the species.  I never knew any of that and it is really interesting to read about it.

 

Leo in NE Illinois

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Re: Tree identification
« Reply #65 on: March 14, 2016, 11:45 AM »
The fact that you are worrying about only one back bud points to the need to put it in a large grow out pot, a 20 liter nursery can, or even plant it in the ground for a few years.

One mistake I have made over and over again with my own trees is to put them in finished size, or near finished size bonsai pots too soon in development. These small pots have the effect of slowing growth and reducing vigor. To do design and training you need a lot of growth and excess vigor to force back budding.

If it were mine, I would do no more pruning this year, in Sept (Spring) pot it into a 15 or 20 liter size nursery pot. Let it grow out without pruning until branches are 2 meters long. Fertilize heavily. It may take a while for you to get much growth, but when the vigor builds, you need to let it grow. Then say in 2 or 3 years, after wild growth, cut back hard, bring it back to near shohin size. Just prune it to a sphere, say 30 cm in diameter. Then leave it alone. It should back bud nicely. Let this sphere grow out again until branches extend at least 1 better would be 2 meters, shear to 20 or 30 cm sphere, then let grow out. Once this batch of branches approaches 1 to 2 meters, now you can
think about styling the tree. It will have many, many more branches to choose from, it will have stored energy in the root system that has filled the nursery pot, and it will actually respond to pruning with vigorous growth. Leave it in the nursery can for the year or two you do branch selection, and initial styling. You want the large root system to be able to push back budding and growth after pruning. Once the main branches are selected and set, and the 2nd degree of branch ramification is set, now is the time to reduce the pot size to near finished pot, in order to slow growth and get finer ramification.

I'm doing this with an hop flowered hornbeam, Ostrya sp., myself. It is in a 5 gallon nursery pot (roughly 20 liters). It was a whip with no branches when put in the nursery pot, I let it run, today it is taller than I am. It will get chopped to 10 to 15 cm in the next few days. then left to grow out again. I need lots of branches, as it was originally there was nothing to choose from. Bu letting it grow wild, the trunk went from about 1 cm (5/8 inch) to 6 cm (roughly 2 inches). I plan on it being shohin or kifu size, maybe 6 to 12 inches tall. I will keep it in its big pot until trunk is at least 10 cm (4 inches) in diameter. Each time I chopped what was initially a whip of a seedling back, I get more and more branches. I read about this technique many years ago, and never grasped the importance. Only recently have I actually started doing it and it is beginning to pay off.
 
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DorianJF

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Re: Tree identification
« Reply #66 on: March 15, 2016, 02:15 AM »
Hi Leo

Thanks for all the information.  Funny that you mention it but I have 2 trident maples thickening up in the ground also to make shohin for my 2 boys.  I am planting a 3rd one in Spring for my 3rd son.  The growth on the 2 in the ground are nothing short of amazing.  So it begs the question, I see the results with the maples why not the Silverberry.

So it's a done deal.  Spring it will be planted out and I will follow this method you put down.  I should not be worrying about one bud as I know the Silverberry does bud like crazy.  As you said, you need to create the environment for the tree to be able to grow.

So....  Watch this space.
 

Leo in NE Illinois

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Re: Tree identification
« Reply #67 on: April 02, 2016, 04:09 PM »
excellent - it took me years before I realized that a 20 cm shohin tree in a show may have spent more of its life as a 2 meter tall bush than as a midget tree.
 
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