Author Topic: Tree identification  (Read 33629 times)

DorianJF

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Tree identification
« on: December 03, 2014, 09:12 AM »
Hi All

I have had this bonsai since 2007 and I am still too this day not 100 % sure regarding the species of the tree.

I think it is a Silverberry - Elaeagnus pungens but I cannot be 100% sure

Anybody out there assist me on this?
 

Owen Reich

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Re: Tree identification
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2014, 10:30 AM »
It looks like Eleaegnus pungens to me.
 

DorianJF

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Re: Tree identification
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2014, 12:14 PM »
Thanks Owen.

Now for a new post on how to get the best out of this bonsai.

If I remember correctly there is a piece about silverberry care on the 2nd episode of The bonsai Art of Japan.  Will go and have a look again.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2014, 12:27 PM by DorianJF »
 

Sorce

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Re: Tree identification
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2014, 12:43 PM »
I like this right here.

Don't know if it will bud back. Or can handle it. Or anything.

But it seems the rest is to straight and far to keep.

Love the root mass.

Sorce
 

DorianJF

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Re: Tree identification
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2014, 01:48 AM »
Hi Sorce

Good to see your view on the tree.

Strangely there is very little information on Silverberry on the web. (Well I struggle to find)

Things that I have noticed about this species is that it buds non stop and when the buds get going, they grow like crazy.  I do agree that the branches are too long but that is the way I got it.

My first goal was to get the canopy to merge together to make the tree look fuller.  As you can see in the first pic from 2008 I think I have definitely succeed compared to now.

The root mass I believe is a stand out feature of this bonsai but it does get lost slightly with the length of the branches and your view definitely does bring the roots more into picture.

My thoughts are firstly to trim the canopy down and to try and push back budding further down the trunk.  That will help with better ramification.  If I can get that to work, then I want to do some serious bending on the 3 main branches and bring them further down and closer to the roots.

My feeling is to get the tree to look like it has really struggled to survive.  Maybe even kill off one of the branches and great a Jin

Your Thoughts?
« Last Edit: December 04, 2014, 01:50 AM by DorianJF »
 

William N. Valavanis

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Re: Tree identification
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2014, 05:29 AM »
Owen Reich wrote a detailed and comprehensive article on the care and training of Silverberry in the 2013/NO.2 issue of International
BONSAI
magazine.

Bill
 

DorianJF

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Re: Tree identification
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2014, 05:34 AM »
Thanks so much Bill

I will have a look and try to find that.

Much Appreciated.
 

Sorce

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Re: Tree identification
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2014, 06:02 AM »
Wow yes.

The roots have filled in nicely.

You would have to get some serious bends in there.

The 08 pic shows the part I would keep lower over the roots.
That is where I would bring it.

After looking at some other forum posts on them, I think you would get some buds lower.
I would still cut it all off.  And even a lot of the remaining canopy.
Seems it could bud lower for more branching, which could secure the taper you already have in my virt.

Something about the giant V is unpleasing.

Sorce
 

DorianJF

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Re: Tree identification
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2014, 06:17 AM »
Thanks Sorce

Once again the fear of making huge cuts but then if I want the best out of the tree, I will have to take the risk.

It says that hard pruning should happen in Winter so that is still a few months away. 

I will continue to scour the net for more on the silverberry and then working from there.

http://ibonsaiclub.forumotion.com/t6237-a-year-in-the-life-of-an-elaeagnus-silverberry

By looking at that, the silver berry can take loads of serious pruning and still survive.
 

Judy

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Re: Tree identification
« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2014, 06:48 AM »
Hi Dorian,
I have a couple of these trees, one is a self raft, it was from a tree that fell over, and a branch rooted, and grew a new twin trunk shoot.  This is several years ago, I have since cut the tree back to get some taper in the trunks, and have a small third trunk started from the base that I'm not sure I'll keep.  I don't have any current pics.  They seem to grow branches quickly, but don't seem to put on wood very fast.  Perhaps that is from pot culture.  I have a very small cascade as well.
The fragrance when they bloom is astounding.  Mine do not have fruit, but do flower well in the spring.

They are very easy of culture, and defoliating can give you smaller leaves. Don't know how much as I'm growing the tree out, and not defoliating heavily.
 

DorianJF

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Re: Tree identification
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2014, 07:01 AM »
Hi Judy

Thanks so much for the information and the tree you posted is very nice.

My silverberry has never flowered or produced berries since I have had it and that is over 7 years.

I wonder why?
 

Judy

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Re: Tree identification
« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2014, 07:15 AM »
Have you allowed it to grow freely for a year?  I wonder if you are cutting off the flowering buds from pruning at the wrong time if you want the flowers.
 

DorianJF

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Re: Tree identification
« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2014, 07:21 AM »
I have let it grow freely quite often.  Especially when I was trying to get the canopy to close over I left it for about 2 years without any trimming.

Also my tree throws so many new buds, it is impossible to cut everything off.
 

DorianJF

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Re: Tree identification
« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2014, 11:52 AM »
So reading up a bit more with regards to the Silverberry, I had decent look at the tree and with the amount of buds that are all over, I decided to do a total defoliation and prune.

I have to agree that the tree is not near to what it can be and that much work will have to be done on the tree. 

So pic 1 is what the tree currently looks like after the cut and prune

Pic 2 - The yellow circled area is the branch on the left.  It is way too straight and the plan is to raffia up the branch and then put a serious bend and twist into the branch to bring it closer to the roots

Pic 3 and 4 is just a close up of the root system.

I like the taper of the 2 main branches on the right hand side but I will wire those too to also bring them closer to the roots.

Thoughts on this or am I mad?
 

Sorce

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Re: Tree identification
« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2014, 02:37 PM »
Orange line is only existing.
Other blue new.
Circle. Looks like buds for new left branch. Keep em.

 I Gotta go back to work!

Sorce