Bonsai Study Group Forum

General Category => General Bonsai Discussion => Topic started by: scottroxburgh on May 02, 2012, 10:23 PM

Title: Taisho-en soil sifter
Post by: scottroxburgh on May 02, 2012, 10:23 PM
A mate took a photo of this soil sifter/grader in a green house at the back the Taisho-en.

http://nichigobonsai.com/2012/01/31/soil-sifter/ (http://nichigobonsai.com/2012/01/31/soil-sifter/)

Does anyone know any companies that make this sort of equipment?

Being in Australia, I've seen mining equipment versions (the size of a house) but not something I could have in the back yard...
Title: Re: Taisho-en soil sifter
Post by: John Romano on May 03, 2012, 11:45 AM
Hi Scott,
Yes I saw this also at Taisho en.  However, you can make one (or find someone handy to make one for you).  If you are on Facebook, you can look up Howard Smith of Texas.  He made an excellent one and he has pictures on his FB page of it with a description.  He also has a short video of it working!  We are making one at New England Bonsai Gardens for all the sifting we do to make soil.  We have one large one now, not mechanical, that works fairly well but Howards seems much better than ours.
Good luck,
John Romano
Title: Re: Taisho-en soil sifter
Post by: Alain Bertrand on May 06, 2012, 03:22 AM
No need to buy special equipment .
Title: Re: Taisho-en soil sifter
Post by: bigDave on May 13, 2012, 11:22 AM
Great idea !
Title: Re: Taisho-en soil sifter
Post by: nathanbs on May 14, 2012, 12:22 AM
excuse me if im missing something but does the cement mixer sort it into different sizes like the Taisho-en sifter? If not whats the point of going through all of that just to sift out the dust? I think i could manually sift just as fast? But like i said maybe im missing something
Title: Re: Taisho-en soil sifter
Post by: Alain Bertrand on May 14, 2012, 02:16 PM
I just have sifters with different sizes. And if you don't sift one or two liters at a time, but tens of liters, there is no way you could do as fast by hand.
Title: Re: Taisho-en soil sifter
Post by: John Kirby on May 14, 2012, 04:37 PM
Alain, I like it. So, you put your material in the mixer, but your small screen on, run it for a few minutes until you stop getting material passing through the screen, tilt it back up, change the screen to the next larger size, empty the wheel barrow, tilt it up and run, repeat for each size that you want. Slick. How many size grades are you splitting in to? dust/fines, 3mm, 5mm, 10mm?

John
Title: Re: Taisho-en soil sifter
Post by: bigDave on May 14, 2012, 07:25 PM
  But like i said maybe im missing something
Yes, well it depends on your mixer, I have mixer that will take 15 heaping shovels full for concrete

9 gravel
4 sand
2 cement

So Im thinking close to 150 pounds of material per dump,

Race ya Nathabs  LOL
Title: Re: Taisho-en soil sifter
Post by: Alain Bertrand on May 15, 2012, 03:51 PM
Alain, I like it. So, you put your material in the mixer, but your small screen on, run it for a few minutes until you stop getting material passing through the screen, tilt it back up, change the screen to the next larger size, empty the wheel barrow, tilt it up and run, repeat for each size that you want. Slick. How many size grades are you splitting in to? dust/fines, 3mm, 5mm, 10mm?

Well, according to my experience, dust is not easily sifted at least at soon as there some humidity in the substrate. So I start with the finest screen and water the substrate while running the mixer ( the steel rod is for the hose). I have a well so I am not very concerned by water consumption at least when not in summer. Then I sift from big to small, because it is supposed to be more efficient than the contrary even if one has to load the mixer several times and not just one like with you solution. I sift at 4 and 8 mm.
 
Title: Re: Taisho-en soil sifter
Post by: John Kirby on May 15, 2012, 04:01 PM
Thanks.
Title: Re: Taisho-en soil sifter
Post by: nathanbs on May 16, 2012, 09:52 AM
okay okay I concede that if you sift from small to large and you already have this set-up it would be significantly faster however by the time the average Joe locates a cement mixer and rigs it up i will already have enough soil sifted for a lifetime :)
Title: Re: Taisho-en soil sifter
Post by: bigDave on May 16, 2012, 07:26 PM
excuse me if im missing something 

Ha ha , okay we have identified what you are missing....the MIXER

I like the idea but doubt Ill use my machine.  I kinda enjoy the sifting ritual

except for the pumice in my crocs
Title: Re: Taisho-en soil sifter
Post by: Elliott on May 19, 2012, 05:19 PM
yeah, for some reason I like the hand sifting also. very relaxing. its kinda like another male hand shaking activity without the shame 8)
Title: Re: Taisho-en soil sifter
Post by: John Kirby on May 19, 2012, 06:55 PM
Um, I sifted 60+ bags of soil components by hand this year, 4 siftings per bag. I need some power sifting to save time.
Title: Re: Taisho-en soil sifter
Post by: nathanbs on May 20, 2012, 01:22 AM
yeah John I would say of all people that it would be worth the investment it would be you. By the way how many trees do you have potted, Im trying to do the math on how much soil you go through?
Title: Re: Taisho-en soil sifter
Post by: akeppler on May 20, 2012, 01:49 AM
60 Bags would be 2.2 cubic yards.
Title: Re: Taisho-en soil sifter
Post by: John Kirby on May 20, 2012, 06:50 AM
Al,
Yes.

The breakdown.
24 bags of Clay King medium
15 bags Akadama medium
12 bags Akadama small
10 bags US pumice
10 bags Hyuga  (brown and yellow bags)
8 bags medium scoria (volcanic)
Kanuma sifted 6 or 7 bags of mixed sizes, a couple were partials.
I also had several prescreened 18 gallon tubs of prescreened/sifted small scoria! I also have a good deal of left over soil in the smalland large size ranges for next year- 7-8 eighteen gallon tubs.


Had to go count bags. I need a soil sifter, this represents the better part of five days work, but I am slow.
John
Title: Re: Taisho-en soil sifter
Post by: Chrisl on May 20, 2012, 10:53 AM
Damn John that's a lot of sifting.  Go to the nearest cement co. and get yourself a mixer! LOL
Title: Re: Taisho-en soil sifter
Post by: Alain Bertrand on May 20, 2012, 12:32 PM
For that much sifting, you'd better with a dedicated tool rather than my little tool.
Rotating sifters, due to their simpler design should be far less expensive than oscillating ones.
http://www.hmdiffusion.com/Tamis-rotatif-a-materiaux-11-12941-p.htm (http://www.hmdiffusion.com/Tamis-rotatif-a-materiaux-11-12941-p.htm)
The problem with the one above is that there is only one size but it should be easily fixed by an external screen.

Regards,

Title: you sick tortoise guy
Post by: bigDave on May 29, 2012, 10:23 PM
  very relaxing. its kinda like another male hand shaking activity without the shame

new euphemism for that...siftin the fines
Title: Re: Taisho-en soil sifter
Post by: jow on June 23, 2012, 10:16 PM
http://www.nifty-stuff.com/sieve-screen-shaker-for-soil-and-compost.php (http://www.nifty-stuff.com/sieve-screen-shaker-for-soil-and-compost.php)

An interesting home made contraption..........

Title: Re: Taisho-en soil sifter
Post by: Jim Doiron on July 01, 2012, 08:29 PM
Hey I was looking for something else and happened onto this site.  This seems like it would be perfect for an individual with a good size collection.  If anyone looks into it I would be interested to know what this one costs.  (I don't have enough trees to justify it now but maybe some day.)

http://www.midwesternind.com/porta-sifter-screener.php (http://www.midwesternind.com/porta-sifter-screener.php)
Title: Re: Taisho-en soil sifter
Post by: scottroxburgh on July 02, 2012, 08:25 PM
That looks like a cheaper option.

The larger ones that I have looked into cost $1-2k so I emailed them, maybe this one is a little cheaper?.