Author Topic: Need help expanding my knowledge in Bonsai  (Read 23989 times)

bwaynef

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Re: Need help expanding my knowledge in Bonsai
« Reply #150 on: April 07, 2014, 08:39 AM »
How bout a grow box?

The mulberry ought to recover fine in the container its in.  Whether the junipers necessitate a grow box has more to do with the shape/size/condition of the rootball than anything else.
 

Joshua Hanzman

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Re: Need help expanding my knowledge in Bonsai
« Reply #151 on: April 07, 2014, 12:22 PM »
Bwaynef, thanks for the reply, see I told you that you always help me out =) alittle more of an fyi,one of the juniper was collected with quite a small rootball, the others have fairly extensive roots. I am misting all of them about thirty times a day. The one with a poor root ball I placed rooting hormone on what few feeders it had, then placed spaghnum moss soaked in hormone on that, and wrapped that with plastic. However it is hard to water it so I'm going to replace that with a deeper pot that will encompass all the roots, and keep the moss on it but replace what binds it from tape and plastic to a layer of pumice wrapped in burlap and secured with vet wrap ( self amalgamated tape). Any advice on watering schedule, I am building a misting system for them, with fine mist on twenty minute intervals, until then is twenty-thirty mists with one sitting watering a day sufficient? Do you think waking up in the middle of the night at least two times to most would increase chance of survival?

Let me know if I should do anything different please.

Sorce, I agree with not worrying about the front too much but I should be removing what I don't think is necessary for final design, and I believe that Walter Pall while designing a 360 degree tree still has a favored front...
 

bwaynef

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Re: Need help expanding my knowledge in Bonsai
« Reply #152 on: April 07, 2014, 01:23 PM »
The one with a poor root ball I placed rooting hormone on what few feeders it had, then placed spaghnum moss soaked in hormone on that, and wrapped that with plastic. However it is hard to water it so I'm going to replace that with a deeper pot that will encompass all the roots, and keep the moss on it but replace what binds it from tape and plastic to a layer of pumice wrapped in burlap and secured with vet wrap ( self amalgamated tape).
I'd imagine a just-larger-than-the-rootball growbox full of pumice (maybe covered with sphagnum) would probably do wonders.  (Full-disclosure: I've never rehabbed a poor-rootball'ed juniper, but all my reading suggests that this is where I'd start.)

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Any advice on watering schedule, I am building a misting system for them, with fine mist on twenty minute intervals, until then is twenty-thirty mists with one sitting watering a day sufficient? Do you think waking up in the middle of the night at least two times to most would increase chance of survival?

Talk about devotion!  I doubt that's sustainable though.  I'm interested in the misting system you're building.  Tell me more about it.  I'm waiting on one part to complete my mist system, but am interested in knowing how others have tackled this situation.
 

Sorce

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Re: Need help expanding my knowledge in Bonsai
« Reply #153 on: April 07, 2014, 11:48 PM »


Peter Tea's new Blog post covers this very thing. Peep the misting room.

http://peterteabonsai.wordpress.com/2014/04/03/utah-juniper-aka-big-sexy/
 

Joshua Hanzman

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Re: Need help expanding my knowledge in Bonsai
« Reply #154 on: April 08, 2014, 03:27 PM »
Ok bwaynef here goes my misting adventure. I saw on bonsainut some dude who claimed he spent 900!!! on a mister, so I followed his link and found each of the component that come with his and ordered a generic but well rated substitiute. Ended up paying around 150, didn't get all the bells and whistles but I think I got what I need. In fact, if you notice something necessary that I missed please let me know.

1.) a four way pressure splitter like this so I can connect my regular GHT and the pvc for the misting
https://www.google.com/shopping/product/11713726740603354018?sclient=psy-ab&q=four+way++garden+hose&oq=four+way++garden+hose&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.64367178,d.cWc,pv.xjs.s.en_US.1ipquFBLRi8.O&biw=1040&bih=668&tch=1&ech=1&psi=BkhEU7rBEOa-sQSH_oG4Aw.1396983826774.7&ei=GkhEU8qIIo2osASmyoAw&ved=0CH4QpiswAQ

2.) Anderson Metals Brass Garden Hose Swivel Fitting, Connector, 5/8" Barb x 3/4" Female Hose- this is to switch one of the above four male ends to female and then to a size that will fit the pvc pipe to run the misting lines (be aware the female ends needs to say GHT, that is the code for normal american garden hose connector)
http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?sku=63004&gclid=CMrQ-cLM0b0CFcyhOgodeTcALw

3.) the misters themselves that are placed into the pvc hose plus a drill bit
http://www.amazon.com/Pack-Degree-Replacement-Mister-Drill/dp/B00BJ8I40U

4.) 100 foot of poly drip hose (with the misters drilled into this, the pressure should be sufficient to cause the misters to release a fine mist)

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00004S295/ref=oh_details_o04_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

5.)  Calcium Inhibitor Filter, this comes right off the GHT hose and works as a prevention to mister clogging (those who use this say it is indespensible)
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003OWLK5U/ref=oh_details_o03_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

6.) Mister Timer for Micro Sprays & Drip Irrigation, this is a battery operated (easily switched to solar if you want) multi-purpose timer, it has a poor rating because people are morons and don't realize that extremely powerful batteries, not 99 cent store AA batteries should be used...

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0071CVF18/ref=oh_details_o05_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The system is still in transport (ordered a couple days ago), so I'll report back how it works once I set it up.
 

Joshua Hanzman

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Re: Need help expanding my knowledge in Bonsai
« Reply #155 on: April 08, 2014, 03:33 PM »
Sorce, I saw that post, and saw the amount of roots on the tree they were able to get to survive, really something . I have come to realize that junipers (maybe all conifers?) have this evolutionary failsafe that keeps them and basically only them alive on mountain sides and extremely harsh conditions. The foliage can pull in what is necessary for the trees survival while it repairs its roots, which is why I mist these constantly. But bwaynef is right, I cannot keep this up indefinitely. I'm building the one with a small rootball a growbox today, and I'm ordering large amounts of spaghnum to cover them.
 

bwaynef

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Re: Need help expanding my knowledge in Bonsai
« Reply #156 on: April 09, 2014, 10:47 AM »
I was primarily interested in your timer, as that's proven to be the most expensive and arduous piece to really meet my needs.  I had one like yours (different make; same capabilities) that started leaking after a while ...possibly after an early freeze.

I'm building mine currently, though its geekier than the one you've shown:

Raspberry Pi - $35
TEMPerHUM - $25
Spraying Tank - $10
Solenoid - $10
x10 Firecracker module - $27
USB-to-Serial -$?  (I have 3 of these and not sure what they cost)
I have some misting heads, but would like new/better ones for this system, and have tubing as well.

That comes to $107, but I had the x10 module and the RPi already.

Initially, I wanted an infinitely configurable timer allowing me to select how long I wanted the mist on (in a user-selectable number of (fractions!! of*) seconds) and how often (in user-selectable number of minutes).  I've come to a solution that, while needing some polish**, provides just that.

In addition to the timing mentioned above, and primarily, I've opted to have this system be humidistat controlled such that steady humidity levels will be possible ...taking the guesswork out of the timer (with variables such as temperature/wind causing humidity levels to change at a rate I'd not anticipated).  Interestingly enough, for the cost of another x10 module***, tank, and solenoid, I can expand this system to other chambers providing for different needs at the same time.  (Think recovery vs. propagation.)

Using a pressurized tank, I'm also able to mix fertilizer/vitamins/whatever I want into the water that's constantly spraying on the trees/cuttings.

I hope to be out of the Proof-of-Concept stage within a month.  I've seen and made all the parts work, but I've never seen all the parts work together!  I'm sure there'll be something pop up that'll need to be overcome.  Currently, I can't locate the x10 module, for instance.  Did I mention that eventually, it'll be web-accessible as well?

*Fractions are probably unnecessary, but I've discovered that to be possible!
**Currently I'm using Linux' cron utility to activate hand-written scripts on a schedule &  the sleep utility for timing (when timing is necessitated).
***I'm not sure how reliable the x10 module will prove to be.  When the time comes, it can be bypassed, though that will require more extensive effort (GPIO) than I'm capable of devoting to the project at this time.
 

Chrisl

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Re: Need help expanding my knowledge in Bonsai
« Reply #157 on: April 09, 2014, 11:08 AM »
Wayne, don't forget a backflow inhibitor.
 

bwaynef

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Re: Need help expanding my knowledge in Bonsai
« Reply #158 on: April 09, 2014, 11:35 AM »
Wayne, don't forget a backflow inhibitor.

Unless I'm misunderstanding, my system doesn't need one.  The reservoir of water is a pressurized tank, not a spigot from the house.
 

bwaynef

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Re: Need help expanding my knowledge in Bonsai
« Reply #159 on: April 09, 2014, 02:12 PM »
I'm sure there'll be something pop up that'll need to be overcome.  Currently, I can't locate the x10 module, for instance.

Found it at lunch.  It's working. 
 

jlushious

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Re: Need help expanding my knowledge in Bonsai
« Reply #160 on: April 09, 2014, 03:39 PM »
Just out of curiosity, where do you guys set these systems up? Garages? Basements? Portion of greenhouse? Standalone structure just for misting? Very curious. Also size, what kind of space are you setting this up for: what kind of tree capacity will it have? Obviously you're doing propagation and rehabilitation of collected trees, but I am mostly curious what kind of space a system like this would encompass.

Sorry for all the questions!
 

bwaynef

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Re: Need help expanding my knowledge in Bonsai
« Reply #161 on: April 09, 2014, 09:25 PM »
My intent was for propagation, but mine's design will allow for either, simultaneously with a few extra parts mentioned above.  As for size and location, mine will be in my greenhouse ...and ultimately will be a chamber made in lumber wrapped in plastic film.  I'm actually researching what would be an appropriate size.
 

jlushious

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Re: Need help expanding my knowledge in Bonsai
« Reply #162 on: April 09, 2014, 09:28 PM »
Cool, thanks. I'd be interested in seeing the final product!
 

Chrisl

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Re: Need help expanding my knowledge in Bonsai
« Reply #163 on: April 10, 2014, 08:47 AM »
Wayne, don't forget a backflow inhibitor.

Unless I'm misunderstanding, my system doesn't need one.  The reservoir of water is a pressurized tank, not a spigot from the house.

You're right, not necessary with pressurized system.  Good luck!
 

Joshua Hanzman

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Re: Need help expanding my knowledge in Bonsai
« Reply #164 on: April 14, 2014, 11:36 AM »
bwaynef, very VERY cool system, thank you so much for taking the time to share that with me and the rest of BSG. What a real sense of control that must be, to be able to water from your phone! A few questions I had,

1) I assume the constant humidity control mechanism is only for your greenhouse? As I'm guessing for outdoor setup that would create a higher chance of fungus' and bugs? Or am I missing something?

2) I have been mulling over returning my mister and following in your footsteps with the raspberry pi/solenoid setup, I was worried about programming issues but I have a professional programming friend who assures me he can handle the coding. But, after mulling it over for awhile, I cannot come to a decision, can you help sway me one way or the other? I am a real noob at this as this is my first mister setup, so I initially leaned towards the simpler user-friendly regular mister, but then again, taking into consideration that the programming aspect would not be an issue eases my concerns as a noob. I was heavily considering the pi/solenoid setup until I realized that the constant humidity levels are for greenhouse use, not outdoor, normal watering/misting use, so I swung back to the mister I have already (this issue will be answered by my previous question so disregard). Then I began to think well I can always just use the raspberry pi for the same amount of control I have with the regular mister, and will always have the ability to increase the complexity if I want to, and that is sort of where I am now. It makes sense that I might as well have as much control over the system as possible, and reserve the right to increase control in the future...