Author Topic: Lurker Challenge !!!  (Read 49583 times)

Anthony

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Re: Lurker Challenge !!!
« Reply #45 on: August 14, 2014, 06:37 AM »
Actually, from reading Paul's posts for while now, I get the idea that he might be tired of our approach to the topic of soil, much the same way my brother-in-law as a traditional Fine Artist gets tired of the approach to Design in bonsai.

As a science, soil treatment in bonsai, is often non-existent, and very impersonal through the use of a hose for watering.

One set follows Akadama, which as far as research showed, is just a leftover of Japanese farming practices, with cores of the trees returning to clay.

Another follows a modified Hydroponic practice, pumping fertiliser, and probably developing tons of inflated plant tissue.

Yet another tries to follow Organic farming, which can be very intensive and not a hobby joy.

Then there are variations of the above.

Seems that some heads need to get together and write the Encyclopaedia of Bonsai.

By the way, since we have the experience of growing in up to zone 7 and the tropics, the trees that cross over use the same soil. In other words it's the grower that is making the difference, not the plant or the weather.

Celtis L, grows in the same soil, in Philadelphia, London, Florence and San Fernando, as do quite a few other trees, we have had the joy to grow. Save we need a refrigerator in San Fernando.
Expect the same with J.B.pines, save they cannot be imported into Trinidad. Only seed is allowed.So no research can be done there.
Good Day
Anthony

* So what if we discover that all trees can be grow in 3mm to 5mm rounded inorganic particles [ absorbent or not ] and compost, with a weak fertiliser or spoons of enriched compost.
Only those who study with us, are probably going to use the information.

Of course as in Oil painting technique is considerably less of an achievement, than the actual finished effort [ The Painting ].
 

bwaynef

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Re: Lurker Challenge !!!
« Reply #46 on: August 14, 2014, 08:27 AM »
Actually, from reading Paul's posts for while now, I get the idea that he might be tired of our approach to the topic of soil, much the same way my brother-in-law as a traditional Fine Artist gets tired of the approach to Design in bonsai.

As a science, soil treatment in bonsai, is often non-existent, and very impersonal through the use of a hose for watering.

One set follows Akadama, which as far as research showed, is just a leftover of Japanese farming practices, with cores of the trees returning to clay.

Another follows a modified Hydroponic practice, pumping fertiliser, and probably developing tons of inflated plant tissue.

Yet another tries to follow Organic farming, which can be very intensive and not a hobby joy.

Then there are variations of the above.

Seems that some heads need to get together and write the Encyclopaedia of Bonsai.

By the way, since we have the experience of growing in up to zone 7 and the tropics, the trees that cross over use the same soil. In other words it's the grower that is making the difference, not the plant or the weather.

Celtis L, grows in the same soil, in Philadelphia, London, Florence and San Fernando, as do quite a few other trees, we have had the joy to grow. Save we need a refrigerator in San Fernando.
Expect the same with J.B.pines, save they cannot be imported into Trinidad. Only seed is allowed.So no research can be done there.
Good Day
Anthony

* So what if we discover that all trees can be grow in 3mm to 5mm rounded inorganic particles [ absorbent or not ] and compost, with a weak fertiliser or spoons of enriched compost.
Only those who study with us, are probably going to use the information.

Of course as in Oil painting technique is considerably less of an achievement, than the actual finished effort [ The Painting ].


Anthony, do I summarize your post correctly:  First you start off with some assumption as to Paul's feelings regarding soil.  Then you liken that to your bro-in-law's tiring of discussing design.  Then ...after making allowances for Paul already being tired of soil posts, you go into a diatribe about soil without really taking any side ...except that it may not be important what soil gets used.

 

coh

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Re: Lurker Challenge !!!
« Reply #47 on: August 14, 2014, 10:22 AM »
It's always risky to try and speak for someone else. That said...I've been interacting with Paul for a few years on other forums (bnut and IBC). Most of his posts are about water quality and nutrient use/fertilization. Hopefully he'll correct me if I get any of this wrong, but he had to deal with poor quality water which created all kinds of nutrient problems in his trees. He has extensively studied modern research on the whole issue of fertilization, water quality, nutrient use, and has shared a lot of this information on the forums. Some of it is very technical, and some of it contradicts some of the basic assumptions we've been operating under for years...such as the idea that plants only take up "what they need" so you can basically fertilize with any kind of fertilizer. Research shows that if you apply too much of a certain nutrient, you can actually block uptake of others, and these kinds of effects can be modulated by soil pH which is in turn affected by water alkalinity, etc. It can get very complicated.

Now, with that in mind...I think it's pretty obvious that most of the time, for most people, water quality is not a major concern. Most of us have municipal sources that are at least adequate and don't require acidification or use of specialized fertilizers. Most can get away with using "whatever is on sale" (to paraphrase Walter Pall), most of us don't have to worry about how much of the nitrogen is urea versus ammonium versus nitrate.

However - most doesn't cover everyone. Some municipal sources are "dirty", as are many wells. So in my opinion, it is good to have his information available on the forums. I may not need it now, but perhaps down the line my plants will start to decline or I'll move someplace where the water is not as good. Then the information Paul has provided may turn out to be a lifesaver.

As you might expect with any information that is "new", Paul has taken a fair bit of flak along the way. There are certain individuals who have been on the forums for a while, who belittle what he has to say...referring to it as "gobbity-gook", tinkering, and other disparaging comments. I think most of us just ignore those kinds of comments but unfortunately it seems to bother Paul. Perhaps people here would be more accepting...perhaps not. Paul, maybe you should start a thread here sharing what you've learned and see how people respond.

By the way, the thread that Paul referred to on bnut, started by Adair, was one of the most informative I've seen there in a while. It did have some of the typical bnut "garbage" but I find that easy to read past.

Chris
« Last Edit: August 14, 2014, 10:25 AM by coh »
 

jlushious

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Re: Lurker Challenge !!!
« Reply #48 on: August 14, 2014, 10:37 AM »
I would be interested in a water quality discussion, we have really hard water here in Calgary and I am wondering if it is affecting my trees. On some of my trees that I used black lava on I see a white residue building up (I see it mostly on the black lava, but it's probably on all my trees) that I am guessing is from the water - but I have no idea what it is.
 

Anthony

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Re: Lurker Challenge !!!
« Reply #49 on: August 14, 2014, 11:01 AM »
bwaynef,

What side can I take ?

If it grows and is healthy, isn't that what you want?
If there is a problem say some 30 to 60 years down the road, someone else will most probably fix it, if the tree is alive.

How would I compare notes, is there anyone else moving back and forth through the zones growing the same trees?
Isn't that the problem, no way to check various experiences?
Good Day
Anthony
 

bwaynef

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Re: Lurker Challenge !!!
« Reply #50 on: August 14, 2014, 12:23 PM »
What side can I take ?

I'm not asking you to take a side.  I find it peculiar that you identify a subject that you suspect Paul is loathe to continue discussing ...and make that the focus of the rest of your lengthy post, which happens to not have much to do with the rest of this thread.
 

Anthony

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Re: Lurker Challenge !!!
« Reply #51 on: August 14, 2014, 04:12 PM »
Perhaps BWaynef,

I was hoping to catch Paul's eye, and encourage him to post his learned thoughts.
Here and in the Fertiliser topic.
Good Day
Anthony
 

augustine

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Re: Lurker Challenge !!!
« Reply #52 on: August 15, 2014, 10:14 AM »
The beauty of this forum is that a number of trained and experienced practitioners freely share their knowledge. Also, BSG has minimal foolishness and negativity. Lots of nice people interested in advancing the art of bonsai.

Thanks to all and keep up the good work.
 

Tona

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Re: Lurker Challenge !!!
« Reply #53 on: August 21, 2014, 08:13 PM »
OK Owen,
I am a poor photographer and only have a cell phone, but here are some backyard pictures of some projects:

 

Owen Reich

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Re: Lurker Challenge !!!
« Reply #54 on: August 21, 2014, 09:58 PM »
Have you photographed your junipers over time?  It would be great for you to start a new thread showing their progress.  Or, you could start one now and post updates (trials, triumphs, lessons learned, etc). 

Thanks for sharing.
 

Tona

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Re: Lurker Challenge !!!
« Reply #55 on: August 22, 2014, 12:33 AM »
I do have some older pics. Nothing chronological but I will see if I can put one or two progressions together. I will try to take better current pics as well.
Tona
 

jlushious

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Re: Lurker Challenge !!!
« Reply #56 on: August 22, 2014, 07:43 AM »
Really digging the third pic, the boxwood, the trunk/nebari looks great!
 

Tona

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Re: Lurker Challenge !!!
« Reply #57 on: August 23, 2014, 01:14 AM »
Thanks jlushious,
I am looking for a pot for that tree. It's pretty big so I may have to save up for the pot.
Tona
 

Chrisl

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Re: Lurker Challenge !!!
« Reply #58 on: August 23, 2014, 12:40 PM »
I haven't posted much this yr as most of my stuff is simply growing this yr.  What I have been doing quite a bit of this summer is cleaning of live veins on a couple rmj's.  My gosh, is it so much harder than one would imagine...getting the bark off without cutting into the vein!  I'm slowly getting better, but still cutting into the vein way too much.  I'm very happy that I bought a couple of cheap 'practice' rmj's to practice on.

I can post some pics, but not much to see..
 

wirem,e

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Re: Lurker Challenge !!!
« Reply #59 on: August 23, 2014, 01:10 PM »
Here's a lurkers tree then. :). Collected 2011, very rough initial styling a couple days ago.