Bonsai Study Group Forum

General Category => General Bonsai Discussion => Topic started by: Sorce on July 12, 2014, 10:13 PM

Title: Layer at a friends house.
Post by: Sorce on July 12, 2014, 10:13 PM
So just when I thought I was going to have to recut and start over, bingo, a bag full of roots.

Started this in May I think. Checked it in June, no roots.
Being right under the gutter, I popped a drainage hole.
This ended up being a great scenario, I don't think we've had three consecutive days without a solid downpour.

A few pics of the sequence of events.

I thought the double trunk would work, but im pretty sure the branchless one will go.
Went heavy on the roots. Im not worried at all. Wish it was a bit better spread though.
Check in Spring!

Thanks for your time. Please comment.
Title: Re: Layer at a friends house.
Post by: Sorce on July 12, 2014, 10:18 PM
 :o
Title: Re: Layer at a friends house.
Post by: Sorce on July 12, 2014, 10:21 PM
 ;D
Title: Re: Layer at a friends house.
Post by: Sorce on July 12, 2014, 10:27 PM
And all potted up. Lol .

I have to get my daughter some new sand toys!

I think with the second trunk gone, this will end up with a nice base.

Id love to hear thoughts on what to cut and leave on the other and why.

Thanks all!  ;D
Title: Re: Layer at a friends house.
Post by: paulpash on July 14, 2014, 03:07 PM
The second trunk is excellently placed as a sacrifice if you are thinking of growing this on... I'd leave it if you're not happy with trunk girth.
Title: Re: Layer at a friends house.
Post by: Sorce on July 15, 2014, 05:33 AM
I havent thought of that Marie.

Thank you!

 I could let that run, though I wish I couldve kept more of it initially. (Outdoor) Windowsill life wouldnt allow for it.

Anyone else?

Sorce

Title: Re: Layer at a friends house.
Post by: Herman on July 15, 2014, 05:42 AM
Hello Sorce,

It looks like the front part of that secondary trunk is dying back? its light brown compared to the green on the primary trunk. this is a zelcova right? this depends on what you want to do with it? you can make a small broom from it ? its trunk is already big enough to do the chop and start growing the primary branches.

I don't know if you'd care for a informal upright zelcova?

chop to the lowest branch on the primary trunk and use that branch as the new leader.

these grow fast :)

kind regards
Herman
Title: Re: Layer at a friends house.
Post by: Sorce on July 15, 2014, 06:09 AM
Thanks Herman.

  I believe it is a Ulmus Americana. But I am trying to figure the difference between it and water elm. And it could be Zelcova, but I think it is double toothed. Zelcova is single I believe.?

That ligh part might be just dry, i dodnt notice it before. There is definitely deadwood at the top of the main trunk.

So far so good. If this thing does ok. I would like to start a good broom. But likely an informal broom. Naturalistic.

I am only sure that the big stub on the main, and the second trunk in total will eventually go. Hopefully by next year it tells me what it wants!

Sorce
Title: Re: Layer at a friends house.
Post by: Brian Van Fleet on July 15, 2014, 07:14 AM
Wow, that is really aggressive root work for a newly-separated layer...in July.  I hope it responds well for you. 
I separate D-tree layers in the fall and slip pot them without touching the sphagnum or root ball until the following spring.
Title: Re: Layer at a friends house.
Post by: Sorce on July 15, 2014, 01:38 PM
Taking a chance.

But after losing everything with Sphagnum in it at all last winter, i figured wtf.

So far so good.

Herm.

ThAt trunk is very dead. With a lil life.

Thanks for stopping by BVF.
Title: Re: Layer at a friends house.
Post by: John Kirby on July 15, 2014, 07:59 PM
Interesting.
Title: Re: Layer at a friends house.
Post by: Herman on July 16, 2014, 03:48 AM
hey Sorce,

Eish, I was hoping I'm wrong about the secondary trunk :-\. Maybe it will stop dying back and bud from the part of it that is still alive...otherwise nuke it and seal it.

best regards
Herman
Title: Re: Layer at a friends house.
Post by: Sorce on July 16, 2014, 04:45 AM
Oh. It is good and rolled over. Both trunks have a scar at the top. From where I tore off the large branches last year. I let the bark tear down. A throw away tree..i figured it may give me some interest, or enough ugly to leave it alone.  ;)


Sorce
Title: Re: Layer at a friends house.
Post by: Sorce on July 16, 2014, 04:53 AM
Interesting.

    Please John,
  Just say it!  I feel some snarky coming on!

I found some quick setting concrete patch called Rockite or something like that. I will share with the group my future new process of airlayering with it.
Then I will have the experience to recommend someone else do it!

Thanks,

   Sorce
 
Title: Re: Layer at a friends house.
Post by: John Kirby on July 17, 2014, 08:47 PM
Interesting.
Title: Re: Layer at a friends house.
Post by: John Kirby on July 17, 2014, 08:50 PM
If I were being snarky, it would be "uninteresting".
Title: Re: Layer at a friends house.
Post by: Sorce on July 18, 2014, 05:47 AM
 ;D  lol    thanks John.
Title: Re: Layer at a friends house.
Post by: Leo in NE Illinois on July 19, 2014, 06:54 PM
If this tree was a volunteer, urban yard-adori, then I would guess that it most likely is Ulmus americana or Ulmus pumila (Siberian Elm) Berwyn had many, many American elms until the plague years, of Dutch elm disease. Lots of seedlings still around. Siberian elm was planted heavily immediately afterwards with the thought that they are immune to the disease. If your home is near one of the forest preserves along the Des Plaines river or Salt Creek, it might be one of the other native elms. But if you are in the middle of town, the first two are the most likely guesses.

Telling one elm from another is an art. You have to look at leaves, notice the details as to how it connects to the leaf petiole. Look for the presence, or absence of hairs where veins meet on the underside of the leaf. Take notes, save the leaf. Then in winter take a twig and examine the leaf scars. Then, armed with these three traits, you can hit a tree key and narrow it down to species.

"elm" is good enough for me. It is good to work with locally native or naturalized material. It will be bullet proof as far as hardiness goes.

Now I should get off the computer and start an air layer myself, on a JM I have been wanting to get off its graft. It is almost too late in the year, though since I can protect it from hard freezes for the winter, it really doesn't matter much.
Title: Re: Layer at a friends house.
Post by: Sorce on July 19, 2014, 07:38 PM
We still have some nice ones. 23& Ridgeland

This is my favorite. I mean to get a picture of the excellent buttressing nebari soon.

Ride Home from work. Drive by.

Sorce

Oh. The A/L was in North Riverside. Spittin distance to the Des Plaines.

Title: Re: Layer at a friends house.
Post by: Leo in NE Illinois on July 22, 2014, 10:48 AM
Nice - the house I grew up in had a wonderful vase shaped american elm, it is good to see there are still some around. Classic American elm shape. You almost never saw anything other than the vase shape on mature trees.

Is that a Northern Pike on the hook? Sweet. The DesPlaines is an interesting River. You know, if you head to the area near where the Des Plaines joins the Illinois River, on the rocky bluffs there you will find a sub-species of the Red Pine - Pinus resinosa, this subspecies is almost extinct, a couple thousand trees left in the wild and that is it. All within a mile or two of each other. The difference from the type form of P. resinosa is that the pollen is red, or reddish, rather than the typical yellow. The trees are on the bluffs in the state park that includes the junction of the 2 rivers. One of the few Rhododendrons found in IL is also on the same bluffs. Worth a hike if you get time.
Title: Re: Layer at a friends house.
Post by: Sorce on July 23, 2014, 05:31 AM
Yup. Northern.

Thanks for the info too.

Almost got that Nebari photo yesterday.

Maybe 2day!

Sorce

Title: Re: Layer at a friends house.
Post by: Sorce on August 03, 2014, 07:37 AM
Well. I removed all the old leaves. I like to remove the damaged ones so I can tell if new pests are present.

All new growth. With roughly 2.5 months for root growth, I reckon it will live!

Love Ulmus.

Sorce
Title: Re: Layer at a friends house.
Post by: Herman on August 04, 2014, 02:54 AM
jip jip elms be tough...

good going dude
Title: Re: Layer at a friends house.
Post by: Sorce on August 11, 2014, 02:28 PM
8 days a week!   I mean 8 days later!


I found some caterpillars today.  Snip snip. 3 story fall. :-*

Pic was actually taken yesterday.

I found the spherical pearly eggs startimg about a week.5 ago. On all the elms. Through most of em out but left a couple to see the buggers. Missed a bunch from a different laying. If Im correct this happened much earlier last year? ???

Anyway. I think it will survive the root work.

E everybody
L loves
M magic

Sorce
Title: Re: Layer at a friends house.
Post by: Sorce on October 26, 2014, 10:38 AM
Old Yeller.
Title: Re: Layer at a friends house.
Post by: Sorce on November 01, 2014, 11:07 AM
A pic of the big elms Nebari. Blurry drive by, but you get it.

And said friend boxer dipping in the river a few days ago fetching keys, phone, after dropping them in releasing a northern. Lol

Full circle achieved!

Sorce
Title: Re: Layer at a friends house.
Post by: Sorce on February 05, 2015, 07:23 PM
An excellent (by drive by phone standards) shot of the naked crown of that old Berwyn Ulmus.

I'm going to start 3 in this fashion in spring.

Sorce
Title: Re: Layer at a friends house.
Post by: Leo in NE Illinois on February 08, 2015, 12:41 PM
classic Ulmus americana shape, love them.