Author Topic: in too much of a hurry???  (Read 6031 times)

bretts

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Re: in too much of a hurry???
« Reply #15 on: July 22, 2009, 02:03 AM »
Yes all things we are told Chris and no brain surgery there so why would a master grow a new trunk(airlayerd above lowest branch) on a beech in a bonsai Pot? Surely he is wasting years of development surely there is an explanation?
It also seems you are saying trunks in ground or large grow box to grow trunk and then the rest in a bonsai pot. Yet I am often told by accomplished bonsai gardeners that it is too early for even a large bonsai pot even though it is only branching to go?
It seems there are two thinking's here and one has not explained itself.
 

meushi

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Re: in too much of a hurry???
« Reply #16 on: July 22, 2009, 03:23 AM »
I think it depends on how natural you want the result to look like. If you want a very natural/harmonious look, you can develop all the branching in a pot by bud selection. If you want a tree fighting for survival look, it might be better to make the primary branching in the ground where you can do major work with less fear.

It also varies from species to species, some don't even survive long in the ground in temperate climates.
 

Jay Wilson

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Re: in too much of a hurry???
« Reply #17 on: July 22, 2009, 03:37 AM »
You have raised some interesting questions here bretts.

Some growers practices may be the exception rather than the rule, but we are starting to get some thoughts what may be the thing to do in an average situation.
See what you started  John?

I see Walter Pall is a member here.... maybe he'll chime in with his thoughts.

Jay
 

johng

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Re: in too much of a hurry???
« Reply #18 on: July 22, 2009, 07:20 AM »
This has been stated alot on the forums over the 4 years I have been interested in Bonsai. Yet I see masters of the art in media such as bonsai focus develop trees in bonsai pots.Even trunk chops on Beech.
Looking at Walter palls blog just now I see it again. Once styling starts they are often in bonsai pots or similar.
There must be a reason for this? I have brought this subject up once before but got no answer.


I don't have any answers for you Brett...I am just the stating the things that I have recognized in my own experience.  However, As I mentioned in the last paragraph of my original post...I know this is not a new idea and stated so. In regards to Walter I might suggest that he primarily grows large size tree...if you noticed number 7 in my list I specifically mentioned that this works best with small and medium size trees.  I have seen a number of larger trees developed in bonsai containers or nearly so...I can't explain this other than to say if you have never developed larger trees (3' tall of better and in a large container...not some sumo thing stuffed in a tiny pot) I think you will find that it is much easier to achieve the branch growth and scale than it is to develop small trees.  Just my opinions...
John
 

johng

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Re: in too much of a hurry???
« Reply #19 on: July 22, 2009, 07:26 AM »


 At this point though I have not seen any ill effects from my trees as they're all in good soil, with good fertilizer, and good water and watering.

Thanks for the comments John...in reference to the quote above...
I never noticed a difference either until I had something to compare it to! 

Good luck with finding a house...I am sure the backyard will be of fundamental importance:)
J
 

johng

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Re: in too much of a hurry???
« Reply #20 on: July 22, 2009, 07:36 AM »
Hey Bretts,
I don't think anyone is saying that you can't develop or grow out a tree in a bonsai pot.

you are right Jay..I am not saying it can't be done.  I would even agree with Meushi that trees developed in a container over a long period of time (20years or so) have an aged characteristic that you can not develop in the a larger container or in the ground...I am just not sure that I want to take that long to develop me trees:)

For myself, I use grow boxes with screen bottoms because I'm developing the root ball as well as the tree at the same time
and screen bottoms tend to keep the roots from circling the pot and thus giving more fine feeder roots.  Makes perfect sense to me...Jay I have always been impressed that you never rush your trees into a bonsai container.

People using bonsai pots to develop trees may already have a pretty good root base and don't want to let it get out of hand, so the keep it confined in a smaller pot.....

The more I think about this, the more I realize there must be many ways and many reasons people do what they do.of course this is true...we are dealing with people:)

Do what you feel comfortable with and enjoy. Well said!!

Jay


Thanks Jay!
John
 

ken duncan

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Re: in too much of a hurry???
« Reply #21 on: July 22, 2009, 07:50 AM »
John, Good topic.
I think that growing a Bonsai in a pot and growing in the ground or a large container both have a place in training Good Bonsai. Growing in the ground or large container develops the trunk and branches. Growing in a bonsai pot develops fine roots and fine branching along with smaller leaves.
Here is some pics of a Crape Myrtle that I tried to grow in a Bonsai pot for years but I could not get the lower branches to increase in size, even by letting them grow wild, so it was put into a larger pot this spring with some rich potting soil. So far its is working very well and in a few years it will be put back into a Bonsai pot.
1st pic before re-potting 2/09
2nd pic after re-potting 2/09
3rd pic roots Spring 2002
4th pic roots Spring 2009
Ken  
 

MatsuBonsai

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Re: in too much of a hurry???
« Reply #22 on: July 22, 2009, 08:29 AM »
Thanks for the comments John...in reference to the quote above...
I never noticed a difference either until I had something to compare it to! 

Good luck with finding a house...I am sure the backyard will be of fundamental importance:)
J


Hmm, good point.  I'll let the wife know we need to double our efforts to find a new backyard, I mean house.  :)